Frap Tools Brenso

Cwejman, Livewire, TipTop Audio, Doepfer etc... Get your euro on!

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closedLoop
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Re: Frap Tools Brenso

Post by closedLoop » Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:40 pm

After watching the videos, and looking hard at the Brenso, I started to seriously look at it, and how it would fit in my case.

I was surprised when I looked at the power requirements:
325mA +12A, 235mA -12V

I've never had a complex oscillator, so I looked at the power on other complex oscillators:
CS-L 120mA +12V, 80mA -12V
DPO 70mA +12V, 70mA -12V
Verbos 70mA +12V, 50mA -12V

What's going on with Brenso that it needs that much more power than similar modules?
The only other modules I have that are in that territory are the WMD Perf Mixer and Nebulae.

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neumedi
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Re: Frap Tools Brenso

Post by neumedi » Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:28 pm

Just a hunch, but some may be from the Atmel chip used for the frequency coarse lock function (mentioned on previous page of this thread). USTA, that also uses this chip, comes in at 270mA - not super high, but noticeably higher than other large sequencers like Metropolis, Rene v2, Eloquencer, etc.

Regardless, I did have to move modules between my two Rackbrute 6u cases to make the power requirements for Brenso work, but it was soooo worth it. I'm finding it surprisingly easy to find great sounds with it and am barely scratching the surface. Back to the power requirements - being able to lock in coarse tuning has definitely come in handy, so if that chip does contribute to much of the draw, it seems like a worthy trade off.

winn3r
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Re: Frap Tools Brenso

Post by winn3r » Wed Jul 08, 2020 6:18 pm

Any early adopters have any thoughts of this compared to the usual suspects: DPO, Furthrrrr, CS-L, Verbos, etc?

architexture
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Re: Frap Tools Brenso

Post by architexture » Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:59 pm

Way better than Furthrrrr, Haven't used a DPO.

On par with Cs-L, FM modulation is better with Brenso, Cs-L allows external audio to be processed through the wavefolder. Pros and cons, both are EXCELLENT

Compared to my Buchla 259 I find it to be extremely deep, and although the warmth of the raw waves is as high quality as the Buchla 259 the Brenso is capable of much harsher tones out the gate. Plus the hard sync in Brenso is grittier than the soft sync in the Buchla 259.

Overall, if I needed to buy a complex oscillator again for my euro rig, I would reach for a Cs-L or a Brenso without hesitation. It really just boils down to your preference.

Also, Brenso allows both linear and logarithmic FM modulation simultaneously for both oscillators both fully through zero. It's mayhem. :D

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Re: Frap Tools Brenso

Post by winn3r » Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:32 am

architexture wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:59 pm
...
Thanks for the write up! I was thinking of grabbing one to compare with my Cs-L and maybe selling whichever doesn’t make the cut, but it’s appearing like keeping both may not be so unreasonable :hihi: :75:

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studioutopia
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Re: Frap Tools Brenso

Post by studioutopia » Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:13 am

winn3r wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:32 am
architexture wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:59 pm
...
Thanks for the write up! I was thinking of grabbing one to compare with my Cs-L and maybe selling whichever doesn’t make the cut, but it’s appearing like keeping both may not be so unreasonable :hihi: :75:
Yes -thanks architexture!
It had crossed my mind that Brenso would compete with my Cš-L in my system, or just seem like too much overlap, but my hopes would be that they would be complimentary. your comment is very encouraging that I'm making the right choice! My Brenso arrives in a week or so.

nrg242
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Re: Frap Tools Brenso

Post by nrg242 » Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:42 pm

i too am awaiting my brenso from Juno to compare to CS-L and the CS-8 Omega Phi. oddly enough, Juno seemed to fire sale them on the day of release at 20% off. i wonder if thats because they noticed the damage upon their receipt of shipment. picked mine up for $546. now, it's also been lost in customs land (i presume for almost 2 weeks) so maybe i didn't get a deal after all. serves me right for being cheap on the shipping.

XiXora
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Re: Frap Tools Brenso

Post by XiXora » Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:51 pm

20% is our tax and we show tax added by default or is there a Juno in US too? Perhaps they remove tax for overseas? 🤷‍♂️

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mvdirty
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Re: Frap Tools Brenso

Post by mvdirty » Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:10 pm

XiXora wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:51 pm
20% is our tax and we show tax added by default (...) Perhaps they remove tax for overseas? 🤷‍♂️
They do, so that’s likely what nrg242 perceived as discount. Beware, though, as they do things like charge an insane PayPal surcharge and/or fail to apply actual discounts.

As for the COVIDelay, nrg242, tis the new “normal” sadly. I have a few things in limbo like that right now. I feel for you.

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neumedi
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Re: Frap Tools Brenso

Post by neumedi » Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:12 pm

studioutopia wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:13 am
winn3r wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:32 am
architexture wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:59 pm
...
Thanks for the write up! I was thinking of grabbing one to compare with my Cs-L and maybe selling whichever doesn’t make the cut, but it’s appearing like keeping both may not be so unreasonable :hihi: :75:
Yes -thanks architexture!
It had crossed my mind that Brenso would compete with my Cš-L in my system, or just seem like too much overlap, but my hopes would be that they would be complimentary. your comment is very encouraging that I'm making the right choice! My Brenso arrives in a week or so.
It will totally overlap with your Cs-L... so much so, that you might as well just send it along to me, so I’ll have two. :hihi:

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Re: Frap Tools Brenso

Post by Stice » Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:17 pm

architexture wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:59 pm
Way better than Furthrrrr
What makes it better than Furthrrrr?

nrg242
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Re: Frap Tools Brenso

Post by nrg242 » Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:09 am

XiXora wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:51 pm
20% is our tax and we show tax added by default or is there a Juno in US too? Perhaps they remove tax for overseas? 🤷‍♂️
i guess it was a combination of that and catching a favorable exchange rate at the time, as it then went back up to $639 USD (which is more in line the prices available stateside). regardless, will see if/when it gets here.

architexture
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Re: Frap Tools Brenso

Post by architexture » Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:46 pm

> What makes it better than Furthrrrr?

Timbral possibility, pingable wavefolder. Sounds fatter cleaner and richer. I've owned both, Don't miss the Furthrrr.

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euxine
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Re: Frap Tools Brenso

Post by euxine » Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:04 am

Any chances of more demos on this one? I'm very intrigued - particularly curious how 'clean' it stays under heavy modulation. Some idea of that in the Frap demo, but I'm sure there's more to hear...

architexture
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Re: Frap Tools Brenso

Post by architexture » Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:36 am

They keep posting demo videos to their Facebook page.

If you go to YouTube it is full of them. Not picking on MW but it's not exactly the most video friendly format

Stice
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Re: Frap Tools Brenso

Post by Stice » Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:30 pm

Not sure where you're seeing lots of Brenso demos on Youtube but I can't find any new ones other than the Perfect Circuit one. I'd love to hear some other examples of it in action.

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euxine
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Re: Frap Tools Brenso

Post by euxine » Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:36 pm

Right, have seen the small demos, and the one already posted here. Was wondering about user demos where the purpose wasn't to demonstrate functions only.

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Re: Frap Tools Brenso

Post by autopoiesis » Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:38 pm

a few questions for Brenso owners or for Frap Tools:

- with the Integrator fully clockwise (so the green oscillator tracks the yellow oscillator's pitch CV as quickly as possible), does the green oscillator still have any audible lag/slew? I've found it a bit frustrating on the DPO that its equivalent of this circuit still resulted in audible slew when integrating as quickly as possible, and so have resorted to using a buffered multiple pretty much all the time.

- if you patch an external signal into one of the oscillators' linear or expo FM inputs, can you still control the amplitude of that external signal (in terms of its depth in modulating the oscillator's frequency) with the Deviation knob and CV input? or does Deviation only set 'FM Index' for the internally normalized oscillators (green to yellow, yellow to green)?

- does the Wavefolder Symmetry pot become an attenuator for whatever signal is patched into the Wavefolder Symmetry CV input (or, for whatever signal is normalled to it via the Modulation Bus)? or does it remain a Symmetry offset? [edit: according to the manual, and the visual nomenclature on the panel, I would guess that it remains a Symmetry offset and that the signal patched into that CV input would need to be attenuated externally.]

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neumedi
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Re: Frap Tools Brenso

Post by neumedi » Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:36 pm

Hey autopoiesis, I'm still wrapping my head around my Brenso - but tried testing out your 3 scenarios and here's what I observed:

With integrator full clockwise, I was not able to hear or see (with Mordax Data - even though slew is difficult to 'see') any noticeable slew. Easing the integrator counter-clockwise introduced slew slowly and steadily as expected.

The deviation knob and CV input worked the same for external FM signals (I tested the Expo) as they did for internal FM signals. In both cases (external or internal FM source) the knob on its own does nothing if the CV input is not patched (no offset or anything). The knob only attenuates if there is a CV input present, and does so for both external and internal FM signals.

Running a LFO through the Wavefolder Symmetry CV input and varying the pot, I believe you are correct - varying the pot did not attenuate the LFO and only seemed to change the offset.

autopoiesis
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Re: Frap Tools Brenso

Post by autopoiesis » Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:43 pm

much obliged neumedi! looks like they really nailed it with this design.

nniikkoo
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Re: Frap Tools Brenso

Post by nniikkoo » Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:21 am

Update on the FM Depth slow modulation issue and stalling core :

I contacted Frap tools and they have swiftly organised pickup service to send back the module to be analysed and retweaked in Italy. my Brenso came back in a week with zero issue. all sounds clean and i can only praise their customer service in handling this.

i can now recommend BRENSO to anyone without reservation.

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euxine
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Re: Frap Tools Brenso

Post by euxine » Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:08 pm

Mine arriving in 2 days😁

Dogma
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Re: Frap Tools Brenso

Post by Dogma » Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:53 am

who has stock?
look up!

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euxine
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Re: Frap Tools Brenso

Post by euxine » Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:51 am

I'm pretty sure I got the last one in Europe. Not sure about US.

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Re: Frap Tools Brenso

Post by smoo » Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:46 am

Loops and Bits have one in Stock, just got mine from them (Switzerland). There was another one.

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