Lubadh vs. Morphagene

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intuitionnyc
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Lubadh vs. Morphagene

Post by intuitionnyc » Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:16 am

Just curious if anyone can expand upon the main differences between Instruo's new Lubadh and Make Noise's Morphagene. Both are fantastic modules. Just curious where you think each excel and where the drawbacks are of each.

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mdoudoroff
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Post by mdoudoroff » Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:36 am

There aren’t really any Lubadhs in the wild yet, so any conclusions would be premature.

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Post by intuitionnyc » Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:51 am

mdoudoroff wrote:There aren’t really any Lubadhs in the wild yet, so any conclusions would be premature.
That's fair. Was just wondering if anybody had any insight based on demos, etc.

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Post by mdoudoroff » Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:02 pm

It could turn out to be ferociously challenging to compare the two because they may appeal to too many different priorities, and for some it may mainly come down to which workflow they’re more comfortable with.

My general impression is that Morphagene does quite a bit more (at the expense of complexity).

One big difference is that Lubadh does not seem to embrace anything like Morphagene’s reels. There’s no SD card on the faceplate. Sharing reels (e.g., Freesound) seems not to be a thing. Supposedly there’s some way to save the buffers in non-volatile memory, but we don’t know how yet, or what it buys us.

Two other big differences are that Lubadh doesn’t do slices or emit grains. Instead, Lubadh just focuses on CV control over start and length.

Another big difference is that Lubadh may not do sound-on-sound, per se, and that’s why that AUX I/O section is front and center. It’s obviously normaled to make it easy to bounce from one side to the other, and it seems you can layer something in with the AUX input and its slider.

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Post by intuitionnyc » Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:29 pm

After having a Morphagene for a bit and seeing various videos on Lubadh, I would agree with your initial assessment. To me, it seems like the MG has some significant features over Lubadh (reels, slices, sd card, etc).

I will be curious if there is a difference in their sonic character. Is it possible for the two units to have very different sonic character (algorithms)???

Workflow on the Lubadh definitely seems more on the surface than the Mg, but that could be due to Lubadh appearing to be less packed with features. I dunno if that’s fair to say or not.

Definitely curious.

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Post by Funky40 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 3:10 pm

intuitionnyc wrote: I will be curious if there is a difference in their sonic character. Is it possible for the two units to have very different sonic character (algorithms)???
thats one point yet to be seen.
the euro samplers for such tasks i´ve had my hands on sound VERY different !
Its nothing like the VST world.......Its even so that quirks can turn to advantages.
the other thing are subtle things vs. workflow.
as has been stated, makes absolutely NO sense to speculate.


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Post by intuitionnyc » Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:46 pm

Funky40 wrote:makes absolutely NO sense to speculate.
I hear ya. To be continued.....

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Post by trickness » Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:53 pm

intuitionnyc wrote: I will be curious if there is a difference in their sonic character. Is it possible for the two units to have very different sonic character (algorithms)???
Pretty sure in the YouTube demos with Ben, Jason mentions a preamp circuit that provides tape-like saturation to anything it records, which has a cumulative effect if you do bouncing/sound on sound. So betting that sonically at least, the Instruo will be different than the Morph.

Also pretty cool that you can mess with the tape speed by touching the reel surface on the Lubadh.

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Post by cackland » Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:27 pm

From my brief overview, the simplicity of Ludbah makes it more appealing to me that Morphagene. However, that could be a downside to those wanting a more complex module.

Looking forward to the demo / comparison videos in the coming months.

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Post by nios » Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:39 pm

I think generally it'll come down to if you want two simpler but simultaneous and possibly independent audio processors, or one really complex one.

Perhaps Arbhar would be closer to Morphagene, rather something between that and other granulars like Clouds, and I like a lot that Arbhar can take a buffer audio and turn it into a wavetable for osc functions. I get the feeling I'd possibly go to town playing with that and rarely ever actually do granular stuff with it. I'm aware Morphagene can technically do something similar (they made a demo just to underscore that) but it's a more cumbersome trick to get it to work vs it being a main feature on Arbhar. It seems Arbhar isn't stereo at all however, which vs these other two IMO would have made it almost a no-brainer otherwise.

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Post by Hovercraft » Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:09 pm

These modules don't seem directly comparable--design and intent is different. I have Morphagene, and it has some overlap with Lubadh and Arbhar, but the design is unique. Maybe Morphagene+Mimeophone vs. Lubadh+Arbhar?--haha.

Morphagene is a nice combination of microsound, sampling, and looping. The splice/reel system is good for pre-loading samples, although the implementation of reels feels clunky. The button combos are manageable. Biggest weakness is the gain staging, and the terrible auto-leveling system. Can be a challenge for performance if you're sampling different parts of your patch live. The other thing that drives me crazy is the difficulty of dialing in 1X playback--the voltage offset range is ridiculously narrow. Still, a fantastic sounding module that's great at playing processed loops, while you transition other parts of your patch.

Lubadh is dual tape deck style looper/delay with an emphasis on playability. Both Lubadh and Arbhar have comprehensive gain staging controls on the inputs and outputs. Both modules also use button combos for more complex functions, similar to the shift+button routing controls on the Cs-L. No doubt people will complain about the button combinations. No confirmation on how the sample storage system will be implemented, but any media that plugs into the *back* of the module is going to be a pain to use. Jason said he was more focused on live sampling. From my experience with the Cs-L and the tan(h), I'm sure these will be musical and playable modules.

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Post by Prunesquallor » Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:37 am

Just to complicate things further, the Mordax GXN should be coming out reasonably soon. You may want to wait for the inevitable shootout when all three are available.
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Post by miles_macquarrie » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:46 am

Where does the er301 land in this shoot out?

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Post by Prunesquallor » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:52 am

miles_macquarrie wrote:Where does the er301 land in this shoot out?
As the one with the PITA UI? :hihi: It's only remotely comparable to the other modules, not being up to live tweaking.
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Post by Whatisvalis » Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:15 am

I believe Lubadh also records at 96k - interested to hear how it sounds at half speed with the right material.

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Post by Hovercraft » Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:01 pm

miles_macquarrie wrote:Where does the er301 land in this shoot out?
The ER-301 is more flexible and powerful than most sample processing modules. I use mine to manage all my samples and for looping/granular processing. It does take some effort to set up your processing chain, but once it's saved, it's easy to recall when you need it. Any modules that output cv can be used to control the ER-301--my favorite is the 16n faderbank because you get 16 offsets and all channels are carried over a single cable via I2C. If you want something that works straight out of the box, the ER-301 isn't a good option, but if you can figure out a flow chart of what you need, or love experimenting--it's awesome.

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Post by Funky40 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:52 pm

i think many people who are into sampler/looper/granular within euro will end up anyway with having several such devices side by side.
In case HPs are small or funds tide, and its just place for one unit, i´d wait a few month to see what the people say who have several such Tools side by side.
and time to mention the nebulae2 also in this thread. ;)


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Post by brandonlogic » Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:19 pm

I had morphagene briefly, but sold it because i didnt feel it really added much to what i could already to with the er301. it just felt redundant and i thought the er301 sounded better. the er301 manual grains unit can do A LOT of what the morphagene can do, and you can have multiple instances running at the same time.
Prunesquallor wrote:
miles_macquarrie wrote:Where does the er301 land in this shoot out?
As the one with the PITA UI? :hihi: It's only remotely comparable to the other modules, not being up to live tweaking.
You just need a control module or two.
I use levit8 to 'add' 8 knobs' and i have two arcade button modules to add manual triggers. theres also i2c faderbank options so you dont need to use up cv ins.
the er301 allows you to build the exact instrument you want so it can adapt to any modular system really well, because you design how it interacts. It may sound like a lot of work but you only need to set it up once and save it as a 'quick save' which is two button presses to save/recall

I use the er301 in a live setting all the time and its actually one of its really strong points because you can very quickly change presets and have all new sounds/samples from song to song but keep the same basic patch.

i just posted this video where im live tweaking audio scrubbing with Levit8 as a controller, set up to have

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Post by pekbro » Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:13 pm

It's funny all the attention that granular gets, when it's really one of the most
simple forms of audio manipulation. Literally, you only need chop a sample
into tiny slices and play them back until they appear to merge into one continuous sound.
Exactly like the whine of a circular saw at high rpm.

Anyway, my money is on the mordax module for granular.

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Post by Nutritional Zero » Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:17 pm

Granular’s a bit of a buzzword, eh? In my day it was just known as “malfunctioning Sony compact disc player” and we did just fine.

Still, Instruo’s implementation looks really playable. I have more faith in Instruo than I have cash in my wallet, which I hope to rectify soon.

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Post by Ray Finkle » Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:01 am

Think this thread has gone down a granular pathway.. the lubadh is the reel to reel looper.. not arbhar :hmm:

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Post by cackland » Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:39 am

Anyone pre-ordered both?

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Post by intuitionnyc » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:24 am

Ray Finkle wrote:Think this thread has gone down a granular pathway.. the lubadh is the reel to reel looper.. not arbhar :hmm:
I agree, but that's okay considering I love granular. :razz:
pekbro wrote:It's funny all the attention that granular gets, when it's really one of the most
simple forms of audio manipulation. Literally, you only need chop a sample
into tiny slices and play them back until they appear to merge into one continuous sound.
Exactly like the whine of a circular saw at high rpm.
While the idea of granular is simple, I feel that it is still anything but simple in its implementation. What I mean is, each granular synth can sound vastly different from one another. Each granular synth has its own algorithm. For example, there is no way you can tell me that the SpaceCraft iOS app sounds like Borderlands iOS app or Granulator in Ableton Max4Live. While you can get similar results, there is a different sonic character to each.

I feel this is very similar to samplers. Each sampler is simple in nature. You put something into the sampler that you want to play back. But each sampler has its own character. An E-Mu SP1200 does not sound the same as an Akai S612. The character differences may seem insignificant to some and incredibly huge to others.

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Post by Gyroscope » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:49 am

The Mordax GXN was annouced in 2018. Is it still planned?

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Post by Shekuza » Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:11 am

Qu-bit Nebulae V2 is also a good option. Sooooo hands on. Nothin beats good old usb key which you stick into a sampler, no naming conventions like with morphagene and almost no keycombos.

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