Verbos Mini horse

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MalteSteiner
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Post by MalteSteiner » Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:18 am

just noticed this thread, I had the exact same issue like Christie, the master section got stuck to values after some months, only the individual outputs kept working. I sent it back for repair and apparently some ics needed to be replaced. It works now but lets see.

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Post by Voggg » Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:13 pm

I'd feel better about picking one up if the custom case were released, but it still doesn't seem to be available, at least not in the US...

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Re:

Post by chaosick » Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:04 pm

MalteSteiner wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:18 am
just noticed this thread, I had the exact same issue like Christie, the master section got stuck to values after some months, only the individual outputs kept working. I sent it back for repair and apparently some ics needed to be replaced. It works now but lets see.
Wow, just unacceptable. After reading threads and threads of Verbos modules like this over the past few years, the question has really become: is there a Verbos module in existence that doesn't have multiple instances of documented evidence of failed or faulty functioning? This attached with their top 20% of the market pricing, combined with a certain "too cool" devoted aesthetic that seems to emanate from certain groups around them (and of course, make no allusions ever as to these repeated problems with their products) has become comical. I owned several Verbos modules in the past, and this was the first new one to intrigue me in awhile, but it has cemented my intention to not buy it or any other ones in the future. It just really seems like a bad gamble these days given the high competition/high quality market phase eurorack is now in, they seem to think they are operating in a vacuum and can get away with these things.

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Re: Verbos Mini horse

Post by pines » Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:16 am

I bought a Mini Horse this week. Fixed voltages, variable voltages, and gates worked as expected.

Pressure voltages did not have a smooth response... audibly or on the scope. Not steppy exactly, but jagged. Easily tamed by patching through a slew.

Position voltage not smooth, as above, but once again ok through a slew. The position voltages on several pads would jump from 0 to the full 10 volts when I would slide my finger off the bottom of the pad. This happened randomly, but frequently. So, for my purposes, the position voltages were unusable. As is the module is unusable.

Two days in the case, and I shipped it back to the great folks at Detroit Modular. They are going to test their inventory and see if any of them are working correctly. If one tests ok, I’ll have them send it to me, as this will be a great module for certain control functions that I want to use.

The unit was installed in a new Make Noise skiff. My grounding is solid.
Emailed Verbos..... no response yet.

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Re: Verbos Mini horse

Post by advrsry » Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:02 pm

These reports are pretty discouraging. I was looking forward to buying it however I think now I'll wait till I get to go to SchneidersLaden or somewhere similar to try one out in person etc.

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Re: Re:

Post by MindMachine » Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:53 pm

chaosick wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:04 pm
MalteSteiner wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:18 am
just noticed this thread, I had the exact same issue like Christie, the master section got stuck to values after some months, only the individual outputs kept working. I sent it back for repair and apparently some ics needed to be replaced. It works now but lets see.
Wow, just unacceptable. After reading threads and threads of Verbos modules like this over the past few years, the question has really become: is there a Verbos module in existence that doesn't have multiple instances of documented evidence of failed or faulty functioning? This attached with their top 20% of the market pricing, combined with a certain "too cool" devoted aesthetic that seems to emanate from certain groups around them (and of course, make no allusions ever as to these repeated problems with their products) has become comical. I owned several Verbos modules in the past, and this was the first new one to intrigue me in awhile, but it has cemented my intention to not buy it or any other ones in the future. It just really seems like a bad gamble these days given the high competition/high quality market phase eurorack is now in, they seem to think they are operating in a vacuum and can get away with these things.
Yep. I have the 5 Stage only and don't recall reading anything negative about that one. I did wait 18 months or so after it was released before I bought one. I had the Scan and Pan in my sights for quite a while, but that seems to still suffer from some inconsistencies over the years, so I have given it a pass.

The 5 Stage Sequence Selector is great though. Use it with my Sputnik 5 Stage Programmer for a great combo.
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Re: Verbos Mini horse

Post by Daisuk » Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:36 pm

I've been wanting something like this, but I just don't feel safe buying Verbos stuff - too many reports of faulty modules, shitty support, not to mention the steep asking price for pretty much all of them.

Is there anything similar out there apart from Pressure Points? I've been eyeing the Korb Modular "Pusher", which looks pretty nice, but would love that extra CV out (position) per channel, but I guess that's a bit too much to ask afterall.

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Re: Verbos Mini horse

Post by slumberjack » Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:15 pm

Daisuk wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:36 pm
I've been wanting something like this, but I just don't feel safe buying Verbos stuff - too many reports of faulty modules, shitty support, not to mention the steep asking price for pretty much all of them.

Is there anything similar out there apart from Pressure Points? I've been eyeing the Korb Modular "Pusher", which looks pretty nice, but would love that extra CV out (position) per channel, but I guess that's a bit too much to ask afterall.
maybe serge tkb from arc. or elby hast some touchplates too.
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Re: Verbos Mini horse

Post by chaosick » Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:45 am

Daisuk wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:36 pm
I've been wanting something like this, but I just don't feel safe buying Verbos stuff - too many reports of faulty modules, shitty support, not to mention the steep asking price for pretty much all of them.

Is there anything similar out there apart from Pressure Points? I've been eyeing the Korb Modular "Pusher", which looks pretty nice, but would love that extra CV out (position) per channel, but I guess that's a bit too much to ask afterall.
I have an Intellijel 7U so I bought their 1U FSR and really like it..plan to buy a 2nd.

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Re: Verbos Mini horse

Post by Daisuk » Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:47 am

Cheers, guys. I'll have a look. :)

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Re: Lifeforms Touch Controller Pittsburgh Modular

Post by eddy72 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:18 pm

stickmann wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:47 pm
R*S modules use 5vpp and Verbos uses 10vpp. Without attenuation, that means only the bottom half of the sliders will change most R*S modulation inputs. Most R*S have attenuation for their inputs but it is something you’ll need to deal with.
what about Lifeforms Touch Controller, Pittsburgh Modular £370ish
good cheaper working option?
5vpp?

there's Tokyo Tape Music Center Touch Controlled Voltage Source MODEL 112 too but twice the price of Lifeforms one, plus out of stock

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Re: Verbos Mini horse

Post by stephentrask » Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:08 pm

Daisuk wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:36 pm
I've been wanting something like this, but I just don't feel safe buying Verbos stuff - too many reports of faulty modules, shitty support, not to mention the steep asking price for pretty much all of them.

Is there anything similar out there apart from Pressure Points? I've been eyeing the Korb Modular "Pusher", which looks pretty nice, but would love that extra CV out (position) per channel, but I guess that's a bit too much to ask afterall.
People write to complain about the Verbos stuff but there is no evidence that it is in any way actually more problematic than products by other companies. Every once in a while, especially if you have the first run of something, you might have an issue. Also, their stuff is only tested on their power supplies. Crappier power may produce crappier results. Intelligel PSUs work great with Verbos stuff, however.
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Re: Verbos Mini horse

Post by rew_ » Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:24 pm

stephentrask wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:08 pm
Also, their stuff is only tested on their power supplies.
if this is true it's basically malpractice

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Re: Verbos Mini horse

Post by stephentrask » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:32 am

rew_ wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:24 pm
stephentrask wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:08 pm
Also, their stuff is only tested on their power supplies.
if this is true it's basically malpractice
i don't know that it's true. I'm just guessing. There are so many power supplies out there it would be ludicrous for any company to test on all of them. Why should Verbos spend time and money making up for some other company's own decision to sell cheap, crappy power supplies? Those companies are the ones guilty of malpractice. When I switched to a case with flying busboards Mark warned me. I wish I'd listened.
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Re: Verbos Mini horse

Post by mritenburg » Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:05 pm

stephentrask wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:32 am
rew_ wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:24 pm
stephentrask wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:08 pm
Also, their stuff is only tested on their power supplies.
if this is true it's basically malpractice
i don't know that it's true. I'm just guessing. There are so many power supplies out there it would be ludicrous for any company to test on all of them. Why should Verbos spend time and money making up for some other company's own decision to sell cheap, crappy power supplies? Those companies are the ones guilty of malpractice. When I switched to a case with flying busboards Mark warned me. I wish I'd listened.
Not to split hairs here, but malpractice is usually reserved for licensed professionals like doctors, accountants, and attorneys. I think what we mean is ‘negligent.’ Is Verbos negligent for not testing all power supplies? I tend to agree with Stephen, it’s not their job to account for all power supplies. Verbos has been very clear about choosing supplies with good linear regulation.

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Re: Verbos Mini horse

Post by rew_ » Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:04 pm

negligent is indeed a more appropriate word than malpractice.

still, Verbos knows what ecosystem they're part of. if Intellijel or Doepfer or TipTop did this people would be irate.

it's one thing to communicate that your modules might require more robust power; it's another not to bother testing on common power supplies. (and of course no one expects them to test on "all" power supplies—how could you?—but there's an ocean between that and testing on a single power supply.)

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Re: Verbos Mini horse

Post by davidjames » Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:20 pm

rew_ wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:04 pm
still, Verbos knows what ecosystem they're part of. if Intellijel or Doepfer or TipTop did this people would be irate.
And people are irate at Verbos, not sure Mark gets any more slack than Intellijel or Doepfer or TipTop get. My point is, people either accept that a given module doesn't work on <name your power supply>, or they don't. The same person that is accepting of Verbos should be so of any company who's modules misbehave on certain power supplies. Or maybe not, but I am sympathetic. Given the broad range of PSU's out there I don't expect any company to play nice with all of them, let alone spend countless resources trying out multiple PSU's with different combinations of modules to reach some manufactured level of confidence, which means basically nothing when it gets to 1000+ studios around the world.

Here's anuneducated spitball, but just thinking logically...Can codify it and say that the PSU needs to meet X, Y or Z specs, tested with A, B or C testing equipment to ensure that E, F, and G modules will work properly? That scenario seems highly unlikely and even if it were, it could increase the cost of the PSU's greatly. But hey, if we're all just buying "the B word" modules for 50 bucks, we should be able to afford good power right? :sarcasm:
rew_ wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:04 pm
it's one thing to communicate that your modules might require more robust power; it's another not to bother testing on common power supplies. (and of course no one expects them to test on "all" power supplies—how could you?—but there's an ocean between that and testing on a single power supply.)
I agree, but where's the line? Should Verbos test on 10 different PSU's? Just one module at a time? Or multiple modules, but just Verbos modules? Or in combination with 10 different manufacturer's modules? Kinda what I was getting at above, what testing will lead to a real world confidence level? And should they post what PSU's pass their testing? I can tell you that I have had my Verbos modules in a Intellijel 7U (TPS80MAX) and Pittsburg EP420 and neither exhibit any issues (I have almost the whole line in my EP420). Mark mentioned "proper linear regulation", so maybe that's one place to start. How do we codify that?
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Re: Verbos Mini horse

Post by stephentrask » Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:58 pm

davidjames wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:20 pm
I agree, but where's the line? Should Verbos test on 10 different PSU's? Just one module at a time? Or multiple modules, but just Verbos modules? Or in combination with 10 different manufacturer's modules? Kinda what I was getting at above, what testing will lead to a real world confidence level? And should they post what PSU's pass their testing? I can tell you that I have had my Verbos modules in a Intellijel 7U (TPS80MAX) and Pittsburg EP420 and neither exhibit any issues (I have almost the whole line in my EP420). Mark mentioned "proper linear regulation", so maybe that's one place to start. How do we codify that?
I have a all the Verbos modules and the only one which which I have had an issue is the DFP in a case with flying bus boards, the worst, noisiest power distribution possible. They play well with Intellijel and of course the Verbos brand power.

I've said this in other places but when I first bought Eurorack modules, they were Verbos and what drew me to them was the sound. When people asked me to describe the sound I described it as the sound of raw electricity transformed into music. that is the appeal of the brand. It makes sense that when the electricity isn't properly supplied the sound of the modules might be compromised.

That said, I think the issue of problems is exaggerated by a small number of very vocal people airing their issues while the vast majority of folks are busy enjoying their synths.
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Re: Verbos Mini horse

Post by wuff_miggler » Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:40 pm

is there a DIY CV controller project out there?
I drew up a sketch of something a few weeks back that looks exactly like the mini horse.
buying a bunch of 20$ softpots and soldering them all to some rudimentary electronics cant be that hard? can it?

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Re: Verbos Mini horse

Post by rew_ » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:50 pm

davidjames wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:20 pm
rew_ wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:04 pm
it's one thing to communicate that your modules might require more robust power; it's another not to bother testing on common power supplies. (and of course no one expects them to test on "all" power supplies—how could you?—but there's an ocean between that and testing on a single power supply.)
I agree, but where's the line? Should Verbos test on 10 different PSU's? Just one module at a time? Or multiple modules, but just Verbos modules? Or in combination with 10 different manufacturer's modules?
We can admit both that there's no easy answer and also that "one single power supply"* is probably insufficient. The brand's own internal reporting on modules returned or customer complaints would be more valuable than us spitballing here.


*I should say that I find it unlikely that they test on only one brand of power supply. The post I was initially responding to seemed to be proudly stating as much and I was responding as much to the tone of that as to the statement.

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Re: Verbos Mini horse

Post by luchog » Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:37 pm

One thing I've never understood is why people in this hobby will spend thousands of dollars on modules, then cheap out so badly on the power supply and distribution (and, of course. go on to complain about noise and other power-related problems). Even some modular manufacturers are bad about this.

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Re: Verbos Mini horse

Post by stephentrask » Wed Feb 26, 2020 8:31 pm

rew_ wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:50 pm

*I should say that I find it unlikely that they test on only one brand of power supply. The post I was initially responding to seemed to be proudly stating as much and I was responding as much to the tone of that as to the statement.
Yes, I overstated the case. I have no idea what tests they do on different power supplies or in cases with various modules. What I do know is that with the number of power supplies and cases multiplied by the number of modules by the multitude of manufacturers there is no way of really knowing all the real world possibilities without getting a module out in the real world.

That said, whatI do know is that Mark Verbos plays his own modules and performs with them all the time. This is what I would think of as the main testing for playability, ergonomics, build quality etc.
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Re: Verbos Mini horse

Post by trickness » Mon Mar 02, 2020 12:37 am

pines wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:16 am
I bought a Mini Horse this week. Fixed voltages, variable voltages, and gates worked as expected.

Pressure voltages did not have a smooth response... audibly or on the scope. Not steppy exactly, but jagged. Easily tamed by patching through a slew.

Position voltage not smooth, as above, but once again ok through a slew. The position voltages on several pads would jump from 0 to the full 10 volts when I would slide my finger off the bottom of the pad. This happened randomly, but frequently. So, for my purposes, the position voltages were unusable. As is the module is unusable.

Two days in the case, and I shipped it back to the great folks at Detroit Modular. They are going to test their inventory and see if any of them are working correctly. If one tests ok, I’ll have them send it to me, as this will be a great module for certain control functions that I want to use.

The unit was installed in a new Make Noise skiff. My grounding is solid.
Emailed Verbos..... no response yet.
Curious about what the end result was here - did you ever get a fully functioning unit? What did DM say about the rest of their inventory?

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