Funking up LFO’s a bit!

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SarahB
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Funking up LFO’s a bit!

Post by SarahB » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:08 am

Hi there wigglers..

Just after some ideas to make my lfo’s a little less predictable. I’m currently mixing shapes together with a DC coupled mixer, which works well. Any other favourite ways to do this?

Thanks for any advice on this!

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deftinwulf
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Post by deftinwulf » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:22 am

This may be a kind of "duh" answer, but if the LFO has CV input over its rate and waveshape, you can mult the LFO output and run it back into itself for some LFO->LFO wackiness as the LFO modulates its own shape and rate. :spin:

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luketeaford
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Post by luketeaford » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:22 am

I think logic is a little more interesting-- you can use the greatest (MAX/OR) or lowest (MIN/AND) voltage available. It is a little bit like making a completely new shape instead of mixing two shapes together.

If your LFO has CV control, feeding it back on itself can change its shape so you can go beyond the typical LFO shapes.

If you have bipolar LFOs, rectifying them is cool. Half wave rectification gives you only the positive part. Full wave rectification inverts the bottom part so it becomes all positive and moves twice as fast.

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euxine
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Post by euxine » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:26 am

Hi there, have you tried:

- Using another LFO to modulate frequency/ amplitude of the first LFO?
- Putting LFO through a VCA and then controlling the VCA with an envelope or something else?
- Distorting/Overdriving the LFO to change the shape?
- Getting random signals/ noise involved in modulating?

Just try to keep thinking of ways to modulate the LFO, or doing something weird to change the shape and you should find plenty :party:

SarahB
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Post by SarahB » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:31 am

Thanks, some interesting ideas to try here :)

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Heliophile
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Post by Heliophile » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:33 am

euxine wrote: - Distorting/Overdriving the LFO to change the shape?
Geiger Counter is great for this! Just trying out all the wave tables for surprising results.
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dooj88
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Post by dooj88 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:53 am

euxine wrote:Hi there, have you tried:

- Using another LFO to modulate frequency/ amplitude of the first LFO?
- Putting LFO through a VCA and then controlling the VCA with an envelope or something else?
- Distorting/Overdriving the LFO to change the shape?
- Getting random signals/ noise involved in modulating?

Just try to keep thinking of ways to modulate the LFO, or doing something weird to change the shape and you should find plenty :party:
was going to suggest some of these, so i'll expand.

- FM the lfo w/ some other waveshape
- bitcrushing/sample rate reduction gives spikey edges and/or stairstepping (doepfer a189 ftw!)
- mix your lfo w/ another random source
- put it though a s+h with an irregular clock

do all these at once! :twisted: :nuke:

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cackland
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Post by cackland » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:56 am

I like these ideas :hail:

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Multi Grooves
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Post by Multi Grooves » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:00 pm

I if you have batumi, then the alt firmware pushed it into much more interesting territory...
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jwm
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Post by jwm » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:30 pm

just gonna leave this here :party:


SarahB
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Post by SarahB » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:36 pm

Multi Grooves wrote:I if you have batumi, then the alt firmware pushed it into much more interesting territory...
Yes, I do have a Batumi. I’ll check out the alt firmware. Is it fiddly to install?

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Post by SarahB » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:38 pm

Also.. just thinking aloud here, but could I mix some noise (audio) in with the lfo shapes in the mixer? Just a touch? Would that add a little random wavering to the mixed shape I wonder?

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Post by SarahB » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:40 pm

- FM the lfo w/ some other waveshape
- bitcrushing/sample rate reduction gives spikey edges and/or stairstepping (doepfer a189 ftw!)
- mix your lfo w/ another random source
- put it though a s+h with an irregular clock

do all these at once! :twisted: :nuke:[/quote]

Thanks for these! I think you just answered my question above!

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dooj88
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Post by dooj88 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:41 pm

friggin love that jwm! just got a hypster and lets splosh is near the top of list for next module.

however, all the output jack labels are greek to me and i can't make out what's going on.

aside from more ins/outs, is it doing the same thing these two do?

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/cfm-bhwr-rectifier

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/ladik-j-011-joystick-math

sorry to hijack, hopefully this is a helpful question to you OP!
Last edited by dooj88 on Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.

SarahB
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Post by SarahB » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:42 pm

jwm wrote:just gonna leave this here :party:

Can you say a bit more about what this does? Do you have one? How do you use it? Thanks!

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SunPulse
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Post by SunPulse » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:52 pm

Putting an LFO through a wavefolder gives some added complexity, especially if you start modulating the wavefolder.
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gringostar
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Post by gringostar » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:59 pm

I typically start with Kermit which is a wavetable LFO, then if I want to modify the waves further I'll mix it with other LFO's or envelopes through a CV mixer, and if I really want to f-up an LFO I'll feed it to the Tyme Sefari mkI which can repeat, delay, sample reduce, and with the ASoT utterly destroy whatever I feed it.

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jwm
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Post by jwm » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:59 pm

SarahB wrote:
jwm wrote:just gonna leave this here :party:

Can you say a bit more about what this does? Do you have one? How do you use it? Thanks!
yeah for sure, thats actually my vid - its definitely a little wonky to explain, but at the core of it, its mixing and rectifying...so its takes 4 inputs and then combines positive halfs of certain waves and negative halfs of others in 16 different ways (potentially, depending on what you feed it.)

so in the vid example, its a slow sine and 2 medium-freq random outs from batumi (alt firmware), and a wonky maths envelope...then the outs are going out to a) modulate the lfos and envelope going into it, and b) modulating the hell out of a sparse loop stuck in the morphagene, which is all the chirpy/touchtone stuff you hear and c) filter cutoffs and some other random bits that i can't exactly remember at the moment.

as a bonus, it also handles audio in a fun way, produces a nice rectified distortion, but with both cv and audio use cases, it can def get away from you really quickly...which might be desired. sometimes it is for me!

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Post by starthief » Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:06 pm

luketeaford wrote:If you have bipolar LFOs, rectifying them is cool. Half wave rectification gives you only the positive part. Full wave rectification inverts the bottom part so it becomes all positive and moves twice as fast.
Also, offset before rectifying -- or mix with a much slower LFO before rectifying so the shape evolves. Or use Cold Mac.

Use an LFO to modulate the phase of another (very slow) LFO.

Running LFOs through filters or slew limiters can do fun things.

Use LFOs (and maybe comparators/window comparators) to trigger envelope generators, sync other LFOs, or clock sequencers (and slew the output) or run them through Wogglebug's Influence input with 0 ID (randomness). Mix, ringmod, VCA etc. the results against each other.

Redefine the shape completely with something like Frames, Geiger Counter, ER-301's Sample Scanner, etc.

SarahB
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Post by SarahB » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:02 pm

Awesome. Modular is so fkin cool! So many different ways to do things.. thanks everyone!

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defalut
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Post by defalut » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:13 pm

Pittsburgh Chain Reactor is great for unpredictable chaotic yet useful LFO-ness.

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windspirit
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Post by windspirit » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:38 pm

My most recent module Ana is an analog wavefolder that is super useful for getting new shapes out of LFOs and does some awesome stuff in a feedback loop with an LFO. Here's a video on using it with maths.


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nostalghia
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Post by nostalghia » Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:01 pm

WORNG Vector Space. Feed inputs with 3 CV signals (LFOs, envelopes, joysticks, etc.) and get 17 interrelated CV outputs. Great way to expand your modulation sources, especially in a small system. I have a Malekko JAG, which I think is discontinued (or at least hard to find), bought used before the Vector Space came out-would get the Worng module today.

https://www.worngelectronics.com

Vector Space on Modular Grid

Also, Triple Sloth is the bomb if you want something less cyclic or predictable than standard LFOs. 11 outputs in 8hp. Finally got one late last year and love it. Check Reverb.com for assembled units if you don't want to build one yourself.
Triple Sloth on Modular Grid
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SarahB
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Post by SarahB » Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:24 pm

jwm wrote:
SarahB wrote:
jwm wrote:just gonna leave this here :party:

Can you say a bit more about what this does? Do you have one? How do you use it? Thanks!
yeah for sure, thats actually my vid - its definitely a little wonky to explain, but at the core of it, its mixing and rectifying...so its takes 4 inputs and then combines positive halfs of certain waves and negative halfs of others in 16 different ways (potentially, depending on what you feed it.)

so in the vid example, its a slow sine and 2 medium-freq random outs from batumi (alt firmware), and a wonky maths envelope...then the outs are going out to a) modulate the lfos and envelope going into it, and b) modulating the hell out of a sparse loop stuck in the morphagene, which is all the chirpy/touchtone stuff you hear and c) filter cutoffs and some other random bits that i can't exactly remember at the moment.

as a bonus, it also handles audio in a fun way, produces a nice rectified distortion, but with both cv and audio use cases, it can def get away from you really quickly...which might be desired. sometimes it is for me!
Cool. Thank you for explaining!

SarahB
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Post by SarahB » Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:26 pm

nostalghia wrote:WORNG Vector Space. Feed inputs with 3 CV signals (LFOs, envelopes, joysticks, etc.) and get 17 interrelated CV outputs. Great way to expand your modulation sources, especially in a small system. I have a Malekko JAG, which I think is discontinued (or at least hard to find), bought used before the Vector Space came out-would get the Worng module today.

https://www.worngelectronics.com

Vector Space on Modular Grid

Also, Triple Sloth is the bomb if you want something less cyclic or predictable than standard LFOs. 11 outputs in 8hp. Finally got one late last year and love it. Check Reverb.com for assembled units if you don't want to build one yourself.
Triple Sloth on Modular Grid
Actually I’ve been eyeing both of these modules but am trying to resist the temptation of buying new stuff! They would both be super useful in my system though.. :)

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