New Module: Rabid Elephant NATURAL GATE

Cwejman, Livewire, TipTop Audio, Doepfer etc... Get your euro on!

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PM33AUD
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Post by PM33AUD » Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:20 am

Firstly, the last thing we want is anybody to have a negative experience. I am sorry and also upset about your experience.

It is good that you post your experience here, harsh language or not, for others to see. For more proper support, please contact me via. email. I would at least like to know the details of your system and may be able to help you troubleshoot your issue.

We are already looking into different cables with a connector so that for shrouded 16p header distro boards, it will not be possible to plug in offset like this. The video about how to connect RE power should be referenced in the module packaging and I agree the note should point out something like you mention - that it is possible to install offset. And some pictures would help as well. I'll add the redo of the connecting power cards to my more urgent todo list. You are right, they do need improved and need to be directly at the physical product.

I will add something extra to the modules I have here before they ship.

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Shwaj
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Post by Shwaj » Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:39 am

PM33AUD wrote:Firstly, the last thing we want is anybody to have a negative experience. I am sorry and also upset about your experience.

It is good that you post your experience here, harsh language or not, for others to see. For more proper support, please contact me via. email. I would at least like to know the details of your system and may be able to help you troubleshoot your issue.

We are already looking into different cables with a connector so that for shrouded 16p header distro boards, it will not be possible to plug in offset like this. The video about how to connect RE power should be referenced in the module packaging and I agree the note should point out something like you mention - that it is possible to install offset. And some pictures would help as well. I'll add the redo of the connecting power cards to my more urgent todo list. You are right, they do need improved and need to be directly at the physical product.

I will add something extra to the modules I have here before they ship.
Thanks for your quick response. After reflashing my audio interface firmware, everything seems to be OK. Whew! My setup is nw2s I/O into Antelope Zen Studio+. I was worried that the FPGA was fried: even after power cycling, the reverb was either almost silent or screeching chaos.

This was definitely user error, but users can be stupid. :-)

I just now saw the Rabid Elephant Power Connecting Guide Video, and you explicitly say to not do exactly what I just did.



Everybody who might be scared of plugging in your new Natural Gate: watch the video, and make sure that you remove enough other modules to have a clear view of how your pins line up. Then you'll be safe, it's not that hard.

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Shwaj
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Post by Shwaj » Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:54 am

And one more bit of happy news. On one of the demo videos that I watched, Natural Gate was fed by Shapeshifter as a sound source, so that's what I just did.

Just lovely! I'm so happy that I can go to be happy!

Edit: go to *bed* happy, I meant.
Last edited by Shwaj on Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PM33AUD
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Post by PM33AUD » Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:04 am

5AM but I couldn't sleep until I heard something more about this. I am glad all is well, really. Scares like this are brutal.

Your comment in regards to design rung in me quite a bit. I am not offended by this... you are right in that it does offer more opportunity to plug it in wrong and not addressing the usability for this was me being focused more on performance/reliability. We can still get the performance and backwards compatibility while making it at least as easy as the current, lacking solution.

The reason the non-RE connector is this way is that I was trying to be 'clever' in that I'd only need one adapter cable for both options: 1) RE module to non-RE distribution and 2) non-RE module to RE distribution, hence the 2x5 connector instead of just using a 2x8 (which many modules do not have).

So at the very least I will get to work on some new power cables with the same 'holy grail' rabid elephant connector on one end and on the other side a connector that cannot be shifted up and down. This side will be a 2x8 and need to just check compatibility of the keyed version to IDC style shrouded headers. I think it will work but have to test it first and get some samples.

If I get new cables made, I will send everyone who has purchased a module a new power cable that will be easier to use. But you all have to promise me that you purchase my low loss busbar system with proper connectors on both sides and we can end the madness completely!

In the meantime, I'll be putting additional notes in the next units I have to ship out tomorrow.

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Shwaj
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Post by Shwaj » Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:42 am

PM33AUD wrote:5AM but I couldn't sleep until I heard something more about this. I am glad all is well, really. Scares like this are brutal.
I could tell from your first response that you care. I'm sorry that I impacted your sleep, and I'm glad I was lucky enough to resolve the situation within the hour.

Thank you for the grace with which you received the constructive aspects of my criticism, tinged with vitriol as they were. UX is an important part of design, especially in situations where the consequences of a user mistake can be dire.

Again, I appreciate your dedication to improving the state of Eurorack power distribution. It's a shame that all of these wonderful modules from all of these dedicated makers are not *quite* as good as they could be due to an unfortunate legacy design decision; backwards compatibility is a bitch.

I want to avoid any adverse business consequences to Rabid Elephant. I don't think there should be: I feel that your posts show your level of care for both your customers and your craft. But if you have any concerns in this regard, we can talk about it: PM me (I may not respond until after the weekend).

Cheers!
Last edited by Shwaj on Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by luchog » Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:01 pm

PM33AUD wrote:5AM but I couldn't sleep until I heard something more about this. I am glad all is well, really. Scares like this are brutal.

I haven't gotten an RE modules yet, still working on funding the next batch; but after this thread, I'm definitely putting Natural Gate on my "must have" list. It's good to see someone that passionate about their work and standing behind their products. Something that is vanishingly rare in the corporate world, and not always as common as it should be in the boutique world. And I love the demos I've been seeing so far.
If I get new cables made, I will send everyone who has purchased a module a new power cable that will be easier to use. But you all have to promise me that you purchase my low loss busbar system with proper connectors on both sides and we can end the madness completely!
I'm actually waiting for these before I start building my big studio rack. When first started to get into this stuff and discovered how the Doepfor Eurorack busboard/connecter standard was implemented, I was not impressed.

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PM33AUD
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Post by PM33AUD » Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:54 am

MARK27 wrote:PM33AUD,

I never felt like Knobs ever quite got the recognition it deserved. I'm so glad that you seem to have a real hit with the Natural Gate.

Personally, I won't be able to scrape together the funds for a NG for a few weeks, so I will probably be buying from the next run. I hope you are producing more in this next batch. It looks like they will go fast!

Will you still be making Knobs or are you discontinuing it?

Congratulations!

Mark
Thanks!

I am making more Natural Gate but it will be a few months before they are ready.

Knobs is a tough one. Basically it is one of those things for me to make the jump into euro and actually do it 'for real'. As much as it costs, for what it costs to make it is very much underpriced. I've since pulled back some of the 'overkill engineering' in key places of new modules without affecting anything to the user. But for Knobs, this is the problem for long-term viability of that module. I do have a few more to build here but am waiting on some long-lead-time parts to finish out the batch.

In related news, we are working on a similar concept as Knobs but 'backwards' and more focused on a MACRO control rather than A-B or crossfading. So while it's not a replacement, it will do some of the same things. For this one we need a bunch of MACRO controls in our system - to do things like desensitising and setting limits of control ranges and using one 'thing' to control many, each with their own scalings. Frames is a similar sort of approach but done digitally and with it's own pros/cons.

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Post by Funky40 » Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:31 pm

PM33AUD wrote:
So at the very least I will get to work on some new power cables .........
i will DIY me a adapter cable.
maybe that might be also a solution for you ?


i´ll take me just those "pin-thingis", as is soldered in in the busboard,
and solder a common ribbon cable to it ( very short cable /gluing the connector and solderingjob with some 5min epoxy / then fixing it with tape, or even some appropriate glue, to your original (psu side) header)


have i allready emphasized how awesome the Natural gate is ?
...guess i didn´t ;)
IT IS AWESOME !!!
For sale:........it won´t sell, so i stopp bother you ;)

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Funky40
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Post by Funky40 » Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:33 pm

when do you have more, how many moons, .......oh well how many months ?


be warned, everybody will want to get one :hihi:
For sale:........it won´t sell, so i stopp bother you ;)

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PM33AUD
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Post by PM33AUD » Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:18 pm

An adapter cable is surely DIY-able. I'm testing some new cable connectors early next week and I think they will work quite nicely, actually. I don't mind having these cables in addition to the reverse adapter for our distribution boards - they'll make it much easier for the user to plug in and I won't need all kinds of education.

More Natural Gates will be ready in a few more months. Still getting all of that arranged.

Glad you are enjoying the gate!

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x2mirko
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Post by x2mirko » Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:21 am

Received mine from Schneiders Laden this morning. I've had a whole lot of low pass gates in my system over the 12 or so years that i've been into modular synths and this one blows them all out of the water. It's the perfect percussive sound, distilled into a module - and so malleable. I can't believe it.

Thanks PM33AUD for making this awesome module! I'll make sure to get at least one more of these with the next batch and I'll definitely check out any other module you choose to make in the future.

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jameswalk
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Post by jameswalk » Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:43 am

Let me add my voice to those who are looking forward to a prompt new run.

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ddoyen
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Post by ddoyen » Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:08 am

god damn this thing sounds great! like, GREAT.

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Post by mrerdat » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:33 am

This thing sounds so much more life-like compared to any envelope/LPG I've ever used. So much so that I'm considering swapping my Quadra (a module I never thought I'd swap) for a 2nd one when the next batch is available.

Anyone try putting a slow attack envelope in the CTRL input? By doing so you can get some gorgeous reverse tape-like swells that you can't with a vanilla slow-attack envelope.

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Post by jwise » Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:13 pm

This was NOT on my shopping list but after reading other people's reactions I have some serious GAS and would like to add my bump to the urging of @PM33AUD to make more ASAP.

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Funky40
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Post by Funky40 » Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:05 pm

jwise wrote:......... I have some serious GAS and would like to add my bump to the urging of @PM33AUD to make more ASAP.
+ 1 !


need a second one
........not looking on my financial situation. i take it anyway.
please hurry
For sale:........it won´t sell, so i stopp bother you ;)

mixedinmedia
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Post by mixedinmedia » Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:54 pm

i got my Natural Gate a couple days ago and have been really loving it... great sound and control options for useful variations. looks great and feels great to use too. top notch.

but thats not why im writing...

i wanted to give a public thanks to Phil from Rabid Elephants for the excellent customer service. i had a shipping issue that was not at all his fault... and even so he went above and beyond to make a satisfied customer out of me. his actions speak highly not only of his customer service in a business sense... but also as a great player in our small modular scene.

i'm looking forward to his future projects not just because he's made an awesome instrument with the Natural Gate, but because i'm happy to give my money to someone whos such a positive part of modular.

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BrokenBo
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Post by BrokenBo » Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:07 am

when will this be available at schneiders?

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DougD
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Post by DougD » Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:13 am

PM for Natural Gate

:deadbanana:

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behndy
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Post by behndy » Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:40 pm

yeahhhh missed grabbing one during the first run. if anyone doesn't click with theirs, please hit me up? will GLADLY take it off your hands.
music, noise, in progress silliness - http://www.youtube.com/c/behndy

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restlessboy
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Post by restlessboy » Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:29 am

First wiggle with Natural Gate yesterday. Agree with all the love so far, great great great sounding LPG. Does exactly what it says on the tin.

Here's a little jam I did with it:
[video][/video]

NG is processing both outputs of Syntech E352. Track also features Rubicon through Xoac Belgrad which sort of takes over in the middle. NG is most prominent in the first few minutes and last three minutes or so.

Thoughts on the track v welcome. Still finding my way with this stuff. :eek:

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osyrus11
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Post by osyrus11 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:57 pm

restlessboy wrote: Thoughts on the track v welcome. Still finding my way with this stuff. :eek:
some great bits in there :) You really hear NG's percussive signature when you close the gates up a bit. How are you finding the Belgrad by the way? Been curious about this one.

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Post by slow_riot » Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:18 pm

congrats on the successful design, nice to see some hard thoughtful work and commitment to standards of design be received well by the community.

Forgive the diversion, but I feel like we're in a strange situation now. Users are expecting performance equivalent to VSTs, and many manufacturers are better at business than they are at electronics. These together are very disorientating and even as someone who can read a schematic I can never tell whether a user is expecting too much or the manufacturer mistook the acronym R&D for C&P (cut 'n paste).

Wish you many more interesting ideas and more customers with expectations that have been exceeded.

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PM33AUD
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Post by PM33AUD » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:37 pm

BrokenBo wrote:when will this be available at schneiders?
I sent them my last final few yesterday. But they may have already been sold; you'll have to check with them. I think Signal Sounds is out as well but maybe worth a check.

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PM33AUD
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Post by PM33AUD » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:42 pm

And thanks y'all for the nice comments. The next batch should be officially in the queue by the end of the week. Then we play the waiting game. This is fun!

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