SSF zero point oscilator

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DonKartofflo
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SSF zero point oscilator

Post by DonKartofflo » Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:51 am

Just saw this on instagram:

[/img]Point zero

So he seems to hint at a "new way" of doing thru zero fm.
The obvious new feature seems to me the selectable expo or linear thru zero fm. The wave morph looks quite cool as well.
Upsaw and sub remind me of the rubicon.
What do you guys think?
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Post by TemplarK » Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:12 am

Can i ask what is special about through zero oscillators?

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Post by Joe. » Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:18 am

TemplarK wrote:Can i ask what is special about through zero oscillators?
This video explains it with some demos.


[video][/video]

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Post by DonKartofflo » Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:20 am

TemplarK wrote:Can i ask what is special about through zero oscillators?
Well to out it simple: lets say you fm an oscillator with a quite deep modulator signal resulting in the carrier being pushed to 0hz by the modulator. At this point, the carrier will not be able to stop or go any lower, resulting in an audible artifact. A thru zero oscillator can go through zero hertz.
This means when its pushed to zero it stops and if it is pushed further it starts again, but with an inverted wave, kind of like going into "negative frequencies" (which is ofc not actually possible) this results in deeper possible fm as well as glassier and clearer tones. Just compare the fm on a rubicon to the fm on a plan b model 15 to hear the differemce.
Theres also a nice demo on youtube by cynthia introducing her zeroscillator.
EDIT: LoFi beat me to it
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Post by Dogma » Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:30 am

Very very nice! I very much like his modules....on the shortlist, even though im drowning in osc's

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Post by starthief » Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:06 am

Very interesting... not just a simple "flip this switch and it does thru zero" but some extra control as well.

I'm guessing the "morph" is a simple crossfade between two shapes, but nice to see it built in.

I'm unlikely to pick one up given how crowded my rack is with oscs already but I'll keep an ear open. :)

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Post by tebs213 » Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:08 pm

Wow can’t wait for this one!

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Post by damase » Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:48 pm

Whoaaaa cannot wait to hear this.
I wish it had a VCA for the FM input though, the "Index" control on Rubicon. Very few tz oscillators seem to have this and to me its essential so I would have to always have a 2hp vca next to this.

Also, does it seem unusual for the Wave A and Wave B knobs to have the order Sin>Saw>Triangle>Pulse? Seems like i would want Sin>Triangle>Saw>Pulse so that its a basic soft to hard kind of layout

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Post by DonKartofflo » Sat Oct 14, 2017 4:50 pm

A crossfade between sine & cosine would be really sick so then you could do the audio rate crossfade that sounds like fm
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Post by Jaypee » Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:35 pm

LoFi Junglist wrote:
TemplarK wrote:Can i ask what is special about through zero oscillators?
This video explains it with some demos.


[video][/video]
What an epic video. :mrgreen:

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Post by Multi Grooves » Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:35 pm

:waah: my Daddy never had a heath kit in the first place...
...but Cynthia, my Daddy never had a heath kit..

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Post by dirtbudda » Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:37 pm

Ha :ripbanana:

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Post by dirtbudda » Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:03 pm

A-110-6 is a Trapezoid Thru Zero Quadrature VCO. The module is based on an idea by Donald Tillman from 2003 but has been revised for the use of modern electronic circuits (no OTAs/CA3280). Because of it's unique trapezoid core it's totally different compared to other VCOs. But the trapezoid core is not the only specialty: it is also a quadrature VCO and features linear thru zero frequency modulation.
The term "quadrature" means in this connection that the oscillator outputs two trapezoid waves with 90 degrees phase shift. The same as sine and cosine of a standard quadrature oscillator like the A-110-4 or A-143-9. These waveforms are called TRASIN (trapezoid sine) and TRACOS (trapezoid cosine).
The term "Thru-Zero" means that even "negative" frequencies are generated. But this a bit a misleading term as negative frequencies do not really exist. "Negative" means in this connection simply that the TRASIN/TRACOS waves will stop when the linear control voltage reaches 0V and continue with the opposite directions as the linear control voltage becomes negative and vice versa.
The module has two control sections: linear and a exponential. The exponential section consists of the XTune control, the 1V/Oct input and the XFM input with the corresponding attenuator XFM. The exponential control voltage is the sum of these three voltages. The linear section consists of the LFrq control and the LFM input with the corresponding attenuator LFM. The linear control voltage is the sum of these two voltages. A dual color LED is used to display the polarity of the linear control voltage. The pitch of all outputs is determined by the control voltages of both sections. The linear section is used to control the pitch in a linear manner. When the LFrq control (LFrq means Linear Frequency Control) is fully CW the module works like a normal VCO and the LED lights red. The pitch is then controlled by the exponential section with the manual Tune control XTune and the exponential frequency control inputs 1V/Oct and XFM. 1V/Oct is used to control the pitch by a 1V/Oct CV source (e.g. sequencer or Midi/USB-to-CV interface). XFM is used to apply an exponential frequency modulation with adjustable depth (e.g. from an LFO or another VCO). As the LFrq control is turned counterclockwise starting from the fully CW position the frequency is lowered in a linear manner until the TRASIN/TRACOS waves (nearly) stop at the center position of LFrq (provided that no LFM signal is present). As the LFrq control is moved from the center towards the CCW position the waves start again but into reverse direction and the LED turns yellow. When the fully CCW position of LFrq is reached the module works again like a normal VCO. But much more exciting is the usage of the LFM input to modify the linear control voltage by an external control voltage (typically another VCO). Linear modulation by another oscillator using the thru zero feature in combination with the trapezoid waveforms generates audio spectra than cannot be obtained from any other oscillator without the thru zero function. The reason is that a "normal" VCO will simply stop as the linear control voltage becomes zero or negative. But a thru zero VCO will start again with "negative" frequencies as the the linear control voltage becomes negative.
Other waveforms like triangle, sawtooth, rectangle and sine can be obtained from the TRASIN/TRACOS signals (triangle e.g. simply by subtracting TRISIN and TRICOS, SAWSIN and SAWCOS by switching the other waveforms). And all five waveforms will be available as quadrature pairs (i.e. with 90 degrees phase shift).
That's why we think to add all these waveform outputs to the module in the final version - or alternatively via a breakout module which makes all 10 waveforms available (trapezoid, triangle, sine, sawtooth, rectangle - all as quadrature pairs). We think also of an LFO version of the module (same features but low frequency range with LED displays of the outputs).
Latest news (as of October 2016):
We decided to add all waveform outputs to the final version of the module rather that offering a separate breakout module. The new picture on the left shows the arrangement of the additional sockets. We also added an LED that displays the signal of the TRASIN output (in addition to the LED that displays the thru zero function). By means of 2 internal jumpers the module can be converted into a VCLFO.
Latest news (as of November 2016):
We just try out if it makes sense to add a switch to select between VCO and VCLFO mode. For this the front panel and the pc board has to be modified.
Date of delivery:  July 2017
 
Breite/Width: 8TE / 12HP / 60.6 mm
Tiefe/Depth: 55 mm (gemessen ab der Rückseite der Frontplatte / measured from the rear side of the front panel)
Strombedarf/Current: +80mA (+12V) / -70mA (-12V)
 
 
A-110-6 Waveforms
 

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Post by The Junglechrist » Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:34 am

It look à bit too much as a Rubicon clone to me but for those who don't own one already it should be a good one, curious to listen to it anyway.


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Post by Multi Grooves » Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:15 am

What, if any, are the marked differences between this and the Schippmann TZO?
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Post by Jaypee » Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:52 am

Multi Grooves wrote:What, if any, are the marked differences between this and the Schippmann TZO?
A lot!

Have the Schipmann II. Curious to hear it though!
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Post by raccoonboy » Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:19 pm

Is through zero FM more similar to digital FM such as DX7? I know it's not digital, but as I understand they work in different ways.

I've heard digital FM came first or at least a lot more common back in the day and perhaps more stable somehow?

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Post by damase » Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:30 pm

raccoonboy wrote:Is through zero FM more similar to digital FM such as DX7? I know it's not digital, but as I understand they work in different ways.

I've heard digital FM came first or at least a lot more common back in the day and perhaps more stable somehow?
Similar sound, but much better in analog most people agree. Digital tzfm always comes across as too tame/predictable for my tastes. Analog is less stable tuning when close to zero symmetry, but its truly part of the charm. And all the cv control really opens it up too.
What, if any, are the marked differences between this and the Schippmann TZO?
Seems to be very different. Read the specs and look at the panel controls seems apparent.. Almost the only similarity is that there is analog Tzfm. Of the tz oscillators ive tried they usually have drastically different sound characteristics as well. Really hoping the price tag on this zero point is more like half of what the Schippman is too

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Post by peripatitis » Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:00 pm

Multi Grooves wrote:What, if any, are the marked differences between this and the Schippmann TZO?
I guess the most important one is that the Schippmann is a PM (phase mod) oscillator as well as a thru-zero fm one and actually the way this is implemented you can fm your oscillator if you want and then pm it as well which i find to be very powerful. (Btw personally i prefer the PM side)

Now as a general remark. thru-zero fm oscillators are great but they will never give you a classic yamaha fm synth experience unless you have the pockets to buy 4/6/8 of them as well as two or three times the envelopes, add polyphony etc etc..

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Post by raccoonboy » Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:19 pm

damase wrote:
raccoonboy wrote:Is through zero FM more similar to digital FM such as DX7? I know it's not digital, but as I understand they work in different ways.

I've heard digital FM came first or at least a lot more common back in the day and perhaps more stable somehow?
Similar sound, but much better in analog most people agree. Digital tzfm always comes across as too tame/predictable for my tastes. Analog is less stable tuning when close to zero symmetry, but its truly part of the charm. And all the cv control really opens it up too.
Thanks, I know the sound difference. I love the analogue FM sound, although I also have a soft spot for the digital FM and it's cheesy 80s sound. I'm just wondering as TZFM seems quite recent in analogue, was this standard when it came to digital? Just trying to understand the technologies.

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Post by Dogma » Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:38 pm

Very interested in this - hoping to hear some audio very soon!

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Post by lisa » Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:42 am

Any news on this? Looks clever and packed!
Last edited by lisa on Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by achida » Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:52 pm

Yes..
Please any date?
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Post by lisa » Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:43 pm

achida wrote:Please any date?
I asked SSF a month ago and got this reply: ”We have some minor revisions that warrant another prototype before production. Would like to have it out there in a few months”
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Post by autopoiesis » Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:35 pm

damase wrote:Whoaaaa cannot wait to hear this.
I wish it had a VCA for the FM input though, the "Index" control on Rubicon. Very few tz oscillators seem to have this and to me its essential so I would have to always have a 2hp vca next to this.

Also, does it seem unusual for the Wave A and Wave B knobs to have the order Sin>Saw>Triangle>Pulse? Seems like i would want Sin>Triangle>Saw>Pulse so that its a basic soft to hard kind of layout
I also really hope that if this comes out after some redesign it'll have a built-in VCA for FM index. and agreed that sin>tri>saw>pulse would be a more useful ordering. otherwise this looks really nice!

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