Starthief's Eurorack adventure, 2016-???

Cwejman, Livewire, TipTop Audio, Doepfer etc... Get your euro on!

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Re: Starthief's Eurorack adventure, 2016-???

Post by starthief » Sun Aug 23, 2020 1:25 pm

natureclubcassettes wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 12:12 pm
Did not see this either. Seeing as it's Spin based, are any of the delay algorithms clockable? I know TTA was able to find a workaround, but hadn't heard if HN had as well.
Looks like two of the 26 available delay algos have a clock input. https://fxaid.app/

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Re: Starthief's Eurorack adventure, 2016-???

Post by natureclubcassettes » Sun Aug 23, 2020 1:35 pm

SavageMessiah wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 1:15 pm
Yeah, there's a clocked delay on FX AID. Most of the delays aren't clocked though.
Interesting. I was just reading about the new TTA Zfx modules; apparently they do not implement the ability to clock delays that the ZDSP was able to find a workaround for for their Clocked Delays card. Any word on why that was? Sorry to derail.

Did HN use the same coding solution to externally clock delays that TTA did for their CD card?

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Re: Starthief's Eurorack adventure, 2016-???

Post by SavageMessiah » Sun Aug 23, 2020 5:30 pm

I have no idea. The clocked delay uses one of the CV inputs for the clock. I know nothing about it other than that. Ask in the FX Aid thread, I guess.

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Re: Starthief's Eurorack adventure, 2016-???

Post by scuto » Mon Aug 31, 2020 12:48 pm

starthief wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:22 am
- I'm kind of thinking about a Shelves, either as an addition to or replacement for FXDf. But I hear Joranalogue and Klavis both have stuff they're going to announce soon, so I'm going to wait at least a little bit :) Also, if I picked up Shelves I might find myself wanting to shelve Ripples... I don't know.
I'm curious to hear what interests you about Shelves, since I perceive the other modules you mention as very different from it. While I don't have either FXDf or Ripples (though considering the 2020 version), I could maybe answer some questions you might have about Shelves. I haven't put much modulation through it, though, thus I haven't deeply explored it yet. What drew me in was that both parametric channels can go from 20Hz to 20kHz, and CV over Q for them as well. Needs a lot of attenuation for the CV. My main use for it is fine-tuning the main mix.

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Re: Starthief's Eurorack adventure, 2016-???

Post by starthief » Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:16 pm

FXDf is basically 4 bandpass filters plus highpass and lowpass in one module, but with no control over frequency range and no onboard mixing. I was expecting to use it both for feedback loops and for something to mix in Planar, and while it's pretty decent for the latter, I just don't like it as much in feedback loops because I can't tune it or modulate it.

Shelves I see as being better for feedback loops and a lot more interesting overall, with two peaks I could tune and modulate and have interfere with each other, and there are still multiple outputs I could mix in Planar. And I could maybe see letting go of Ripples, since Shelves effectively could also be used as a conventional filter -- although that would remain to be seen for sure. I do have two other filters in my setup, and generally think of Ripples as a utility or secondary filter more so than a "character" feature (though it's definitely not boring-sounding in its own right).

ADDAC603 seems even cooler than Shelves in a lot of ways, but at 3x the current draw and about 3x the price, I'm not convinced it's 3x better :)

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Re: Starthief's Eurorack adventure, 2016-???

Post by Cpaf » Mon Aug 31, 2020 2:20 pm

Gotta ask, so, what do you think about the new Jouranalogue offerings? The Morph 4 looks pretty rad to me, but you did sent the Filter 8 on its way after some time. Do you feel that might repeat itself with other Jouranalogue gear?

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Re: Starthief's Eurorack adventure, 2016-???

Post by starthief » Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:49 pm

Morph 4 seems cool. A bit like an analog Frames, a bit like RxMx, a bit like the Doepfer A-144 morphing controller, but also with its own twists. Having individual VCAs on it is nice. CV over span/position could be a bit mind-blowing, and there's probably some potential for crazy stuff when self-patching, when some or all of the channels are working with CVs rather than audio...

I don't think there's a place in my rig for it, but it does make me realize that Planar 2 can kinda imitate the Doepfer A-144, so that's something I want to experiment with. If I wanted to rig up something a bit more than that, I could likely do it with Bitwig Grid with some work, although that puts it behind the "latency wall" :)


The wavefolder interests me a bit but I'll want to hear some demos... I'll likely have a 4HP space that it could go into. Nice to have more variety in available folders.

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Re: Starthief's Eurorack adventure, 2016-???

Post by natureclubcassettes » Mon Aug 31, 2020 6:36 pm

I had the 144 when I first started euro in 2012. no offense, but it was an utter waste of space. I got it based on the Doepfer blurb that it worked well with a quad mixer/vca like the 135, but the cascading modulation effect gets really, really predictable over time. maybe I wasn't using it to its full potential, but I have easily replicated the effect with other modules since getting rid of it (was the first module I sold).

I wouldn't use shelves as a conventional filter, just like I wouldn't use a ResEQ as such. I know I've bothered you before about that module, but seriously consider it. it is the special sauce. I know you are a recent shapeshifter convert and these modules sound ace together. it just excels at fundamentally altering the character of your mix. however, maybe that's not what youre looking for......

I agree about fxdf on feedback loops. just using one of the bands sucks. however, in the days before I had a ResEQ I would use the individual bands out to my Linix and then CV their amplitude via multiple slow un synced LFOs from Quadra for a pseudo rxmx style sound. again, the results were not mind blowing by themselves, but it was at least an interesting application. I mainly use the fxdf now with the colored output of my 118 and then into the lxd for percussion sounds or colored noise washes; it's a small source of woody and/or metallic plucks and donks or wind depending on how I attenuate the colors of the 118.

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Re: Starthief's Eurorack adventure, 2016-???

Post by starthief » Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:10 pm

natureclubcassettes wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 6:36 pm
I had the 144 when I first started euro in 2012. no offense, but it was an utter waste of space. I got it based on the Doepfer blurb that it worked well with a quad mixer/vca like the 135, but the cascading modulation effect gets really, really predictable over time.
I was thinking more along the lines of running audio into the inputs on Planar, and crossfading across them with an envelope, from brightest to darkest waveforms and then silence. So I guess more like the A-144 plus a VCA mixer.

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Re: Starthief's Eurorack adventure, 2016-???

Post by natureclubcassettes » Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:13 pm

starthief wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:10 pm
natureclubcassettes wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 6:36 pm
I had the 144 when I first started euro in 2012. no offense, but it was an utter waste of space. I got it based on the Doepfer blurb that it worked well with a quad mixer/vca like the 135, but the cascading modulation effect gets really, really predictable over time.
I was thinking more along the lines of running audio into the inputs on Planar, and crossfading across them with an envelope, from brightest to darkest waveforms and then silence. So I guess more like the A-144 plus a VCA mixer.
I hear you, Starthief. that's basically the patch I was describing with my Quadra/linix combo, albeit with CV and not manually controlled :)

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Re: Starthief's Eurorack adventure, 2016-???

Post by starthief » Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:22 am

I was thinking of CVing Planar though -- using Polar mode with an offset into the radius and an envelope into the angle, so it'd basically just smoothly range from A through D.

Now that I've watched the demo from the livestream, Morph 4 is even cooler than I realized. Using it as a waveshaper, with audio going into the Morph input and the different sections' level, position and span determining the shape, seems pretty awesome -- ripe for windowed PWM and phase modulation.

But I think Intellijel Bifold steals the thunder of Fold 6, with so many more routing options available. Fold 6 will probably still sell well due to its compact size and because people love Joranalogue overall. :)

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Re: Starthief's Eurorack adventure, 2016-???

Post by starthief » Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:39 am

So, I've released another album and it's time to look at the gear usage.

I'm counting Stages, Maths, Marbles, ES-3, Shades etc. as a given, so I don't actually know how many times I used each of them. A lot :)

The Star of the Show:
E520 appeared in 8 out of the 9 tracks recorded after it arrived. Sometimes twice, as I used it on a voice when recording and then ran the full mix through it again. Spectral Crush is my favorite algorithm in general. The delays are excellent, but I've been reserving E520 for its more unique effects.

Oscillator Shuffle:
ENOSC and Shapeshifter have solidly taken over as my main oscillators. I love them both. ENOSC has some phase cancellation that can present some mix challenges, but I usually find taking the two outputs as mid/side and working with mid/side EQ gets things under control.

As much as I have loved the HD mk2, I don't find myself missing it. It hasn't sold yet, but a couple of people have expressed dismay that I'm selling it. Someone grab it? :)

I do have mild embarrassment about selling the E352 right before surprise new firmware hit the scene :doh: However, I can do wavetable lookup with Disting, Shapeshifter, VIA SCANNER and the sampler in Bitwig Grid. Overall, I do feel like Shapeshifter is a better fit for me.

The Rest of the Podim:
Natural Gate continues to shine, and was in 6 tracks.

Sweet Sixteen and 0-Ctrl have been serving me well (as has Planar beyond just the FXDf stuff). I'm really satisfied with this combo of controls.

As for filters, Angle Grinder and VCFQ were used frequently and equally, and Ripples was pretty close. The most common pattern seems to be VCFQ for lowpass, AG for highpass or oscillation, Ripples as a second filter if I'm working with stereo, but that's not always how it goes.

Not So Much:
Disting EX only got used once (for 2x Wavetable Waveshaper). I just don't find it fun, so I don't tend to reach for it readily -- but I do think it's got a whole bunch of useful occasional utilities, so I'm not considering dumping it.

AI008 Matrix Mixer only got used once too. I'd originally envisioned using it with FXDf -- but every time I use FXDf, I just feed 4 bands into Planar. But I could see using it more with FX Aid for taking some of the more resonator-ish short delays to new heights.

Lyra-8 got used a couple of times, and the Reface CS only once in a minor role.

The Soft Side:
Valhalla Delay was in all 11 tracks (!), and Supermassive in 7. They didn't quite crowd out all other delays and reverbs, but close. I still feel like Ratshack Reverb is essential, and I've been playing a bit with Bitwig's delays because you can shove other plugins inside their feedback loops (or even route out to hardware and back).

Aalto, Fundamental and Bitwig Organ all did a fine job droning and disguising themselves as part of the modular. I also had a short sequenced loop from Chipspeech (the only bit of MIDI sequencing I used).

I didn't use nearly as much lofi cassette stuff or heavy saturation as previously, but it was there.

Still using Magic Death Eye and CraveEQ both for mastering and frequently on individual tracks -- and now Gullfoss too. It is very good at taming harsh resonances (especially on the Lyra-8), and it's very rare when dropping it into a track doesn't make it a little better (though sometimes the high end needs taming).


What's Gonna Change
I bought a Shelves. Most likely, FXDf won't last long after that arrives. Ripples might go too if I feel like the filter outputs on Shelves can cover the role well enough, but I'm not counting on it.

I think I don't need to have two Rings anymore. Mimeophon is pretty great as a resonator, and FX Aid and E520 show a lot of promise there (something I need to experiment with). So it's a question of what makes sense to replace the second one with.

I have curiosities about both Loquelic Iteritas and Telharmonic, and expect I'd get along with both of them well. I also kind of miss Manis, though trying it again after I let go of it once seems risky. I'm really not convinced I need another oscillator, though.

I'm pondering shaking up my non-modular synths. I've considered a MegaFM, because more dirty 80s Yamaha FM chips can only be a good thing and I like that "ladder effect" distortion. But I'm still contemplating.

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Re: Starthief's Eurorack adventure, 2016-???

Post by starthief » Sun Sep 06, 2020 2:36 pm

Shelves arrived. Really tired from some yard work today but I played with it a bit. I was a bit confused at first -- I think because I expected the low shelf EQ to be the top row and the high shelf to be the bottom. Also in general I wish the two shelves would cut more without needing an external CV applied to their gain, though the two peaking bands are fine. But for feedback loops it's pretty much exactly what I was looking for, and for other filtering tasks it definitely has some neat tricks. I didn't try mixing various outputs with Planar yet, but I expect it'll be good for that.

I bought a Microfreak, and will see how I like it compared to the Reface CS. I've said before I wasn't impressed with the concept and wasn't sure I liked the keyboard, but... I do love using the 0-Ctrl's touch pressure keyboard, so maybe a touch pressure keyboard that sends MIDI and has a polyphonic Plaits built in is worthwhile after all. :) I'm also thinking about Model:Cycles later, because it turns out there's a small community of people using it as an ambient FM synth rather than a groovebox per se, and it seems to shine at that. Once that dust settles from those decisions, I'll decide what other changes I might want to make to the modular.

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Re: Starthief's Eurorack adventure, 2016-???

Post by starthief » Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:13 pm

Microfreak is a good fit for my music making efforts, since it can hold drones and then sweep that lovely filter across them.

As far as using it to control the modular goes, it's kind of less hassle to go through USB MIDI to the DAW to the ES-6, than it is to fish around on the back of the keyboard for the poorly labeled CV outputs. But I've got the 0-Ctrl for that anyway.

I've decided to give up my Lyra-8. I like the control scheme generally but in terms of sound, I feel like I'm in kind of a rut with it, despite some success processing it with E520 or Gullfoss. I think I'd be better off with something else, as long as it's hands-on, good for drones, and doesn't overlap too much with other gear. Subharmonicon? Minibrute 2S? Bass Station 2? Quadrantid Swarm? Dreadbox Nyx? Volca FM? :hmm: Of course there are some advantages into choosing something semi-modular...

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Re: Starthief's Eurorack adventure, 2016-???

Post by starthief » Sun Sep 20, 2020 3:54 pm

I've had that AI008 since April and the layout still confuses me. Somehow translating the row of 4 inputs to four rows of pots, while also having the visual confusion of 4 outputs when there are just three columns thanks to the useless A+B+C output, just throws me off. So I started thinking about how I could make a color-coded overlay for it, possibly as a prototype for a custom panel.

Then I hit on a simpler idea: color-coding with Bananuts and knobs.

...except the knobs are a problem. Not much will fit on those tall plastic mini-pots that are slightly thicker than T18. Knobs made for 1/4 shafts will fit, but even Davies 1900h would be too close together.

So I'm going to try some 1/8" pinstripe tape. I'll color-code the input jacks with Bananuts, and have matching horizontal stripes below their associated rows of pots. I'll also put a black Bananut on the A+B+C output to visually "hide" it a bit more.

If that turns out to be effective but too ugly to tolerate, I'll go back to the overlay/custom panel idea :D

...

Also I decided to trade my Lyra-8 for a Polyend/Dreadbox Medusa. While there are some videos out there that make it sound pretty boring, there are also a few excellent counterexamples, especially for drones. I might also wind up using it to play/sequence the modular, going MIDI through Bitwig to the ES-3.

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Re: Starthief's Eurorack adventure, 2016-???

Post by DCDanno » Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:49 am

starthief wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 3:54 pm
I've had that AI008 since April and the layout still confuses me. Somehow translating the row of 4 inputs to four rows of pots, while also having the visual confusion of 4 outputs when there are just three columns thanks to the useless A+B+C output, just throws me off. So I started thinking about how I could make a color-coded overlay for it, possibly as a prototype for a custom panel.

Then I hit on a simpler idea: color-coding with Bananuts and knobs.

...except the knobs are a problem. Not much will fit on those tall plastic mini-pots that are slightly thicker than T18. Knobs made for 1/4 shafts will fit, but even Davies 1900h would be too close together.

So I'm going to try some 1/8" pinstripe tape. I'll color-code the input jacks with Bananuts, and have matching horizontal stripes below their associated rows of pots. I'll also put a black Bananut on the A+B+C output to visually "hide" it a bit more.

If that turns out to be effective but too ugly to tolerate, I'll go back to the overlay/custom panel idea :D
Thanks, Starthief. I've had an 008 for months and it still confuses me as well. I chalked it up to my inexperience, which I'm sure plays a role, but hearing you say this makes me feel less incompetent.

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Re: Starthief's Eurorack adventure, 2016-???

Post by starthief » Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:37 pm

DCDanno wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:49 am
Thanks, Starthief. I've had an 008 for months and it still confuses me as well. I chalked it up to my inexperience, which I'm sure plays a role, but hearing you say this makes me feel less incompetent.
I guess the AI008 layout is just universally confusing :) I'm hoping the color associations make it clearer.

Even so, I'm halfway thinking about swapping out AI008 and one of my two Shades for a Blinds instead. :mrgreen:

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Re: Starthief's Eurorack adventure, 2016-???

Post by dooj88 » Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:36 pm

how anyone gets along without blinds is a mystery to me.. attenuator and offset right there. then you get cv control over the offset (which i rarely use for anything other than ringmod since blinds is how i fine tune cv very small ranges i'm after.) and it makes a good crossfader.

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Re: Starthief's Eurorack adventure, 2016-???

Post by starthief » Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:30 pm

dooj88 wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:36 pm
how anyone gets along without blinds is a mystery to me.. attenuator and offset right there. then you get cv control over the offset (which i rarely use for anything other than ringmod since blinds is how i fine tune cv very small ranges i'm after.) and it makes a good crossfader.
Blinds is polarizing in both senses of the word :hihi: Being hard to zero makes it a poor choice if you don't have other attenuators/mixers/VCA available. If you do though, its versatility makes a lot of sense.

Blinds would be an absolute no-brainer if it had uni/bi switches per channel like Shades :)

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Re: Starthief's Eurorack adventure, 2016-???

Post by starthief » Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:59 am

I freaking love the Medusa, so that was a good trade for me. The raw oscillators and the filter don't have a lot of character on their own, but when you put it all together you can conjure some great stuff from it.

Did I mention I also ordered a DAFM Synth Genesis, with YM2612 chip? It's sort of my compromise between getting a MegaFM and not getting a MegaFM. :hihi: More noisy FM, yay! I don't really expect to replace my Akemie's Castle with it but I'll see if/how it fits in with the other stuff.


I have not been loving Disting EX, despite its improvements over the mk4, and I went back and looked at how I've been using it: mostly as a crossfader and ringmod, a little (but not on a recordng yet) as an XOR for PLL patches, once as a bitcrusher and once for waveshaping. So I decided to go ahead and sell it and go for that Blinds.

Most likely I'll end up selling the AI008, but I'm going to at least wait for that pinstripe tape to show up to see if it makes a lot more sense with color coding. It took that tape just 2 days to get to the St. Louis area, where it's spent 6 days bouncing between "arrived" and "departed" from the regional post office without quite making it to my local PO or my mailbox. Sigh.

Also I decided I don't really need to have two Rings, and a trade was offered almost as quickly as the Disting sold, so there'll be a Mystic Circuits Ana on the way as well. :tu:

Most likely anything else I might add will be some other analog utility along those lines -- but I do have some curiosity about Desmodus Versio (even though I am a bit FX-heavy) and Telharmonic (even though I really don't need more oscillators).

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Re: Starthief's Eurorack adventure, 2016-???

Post by natureclubcassettes » Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:48 pm

hey, could you tell me more about your current relationship with the phonogene? I have been thinking about get that or echophon lately, as my Doepfer BBD died on me and I've decided I want and older, grittier MN effect in my smaller rack...

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Re: Starthief's Eurorack adventure, 2016-???

Post by starthief » Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:07 pm

natureclubcassettes wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:48 pm
hey, could you tell me more about your current relationship with the phonogene? I have been thinking about get that or echophon lately, as my Doepfer BBD died on me and I've decided I want and older, grittier MN effect in my smaller rack...
I like Phonogene quite a lot. At first I wished that it had a longer record time and was a little more lo-fi, but that's solved by recording at a lower speed. :D I appreciate that it's pretty simple to work with but still has some clever tricks, like using the end-of-splice output to clock a sequencer that sequences the splices while also sequencing other modules.

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Re: Starthief's Eurorack adventure, 2016-???

Post by starthief » Fri Oct 02, 2020 5:25 pm

Finally:
20201002_171058-01.jpeg
I could have applied the tape a little straighter (it looks a bit worse in the photo than in reality). Ideally, I'd have put it right across the lines of pots where the printed black lines were -- but that would have required either removing the panel or cutting and placing the tape very precisely. And that tape is pretty flimsy and fiddly to work with anyhow.

I could maybe wrap the pot shafts themselves in the tape, except I don't know if it'd last very long and I don't want to gum things up. (It's supposed to not leave any residue when removed, but who knows?)

For the A+B+C output I've got a black Bananut plus a little plastic jack guard. Someone on Lines (I don't remember who) sent me a bunch of them, mostly to block the extra i2c port on my TXb so I don't sleepily patch CV into it and fry my Teletype. Anyway, I think it does well enough at visually reinforcing the 3 columns/3 outputs association.

I'll see how it works out in practice -- and if I even will still need a matrix mixer after the Blinds arrives -- but I think this will be is an improvement in usability. Also, I kind of like the touch of color, though it's not quite as classy as the red Bananuts on Mimeophon and Phonogene :D

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Re: Starthief's Eurorack adventure, 2016-???

Post by starthief » Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:35 pm

I've gotta say, Mystic Circuits Ana makes a really good waveshaper. Even with Shapeshifter's variety of combo modes, it still can contribute some things... mixing in an envelope with one or two oscillators, and/or self-patching, can go to some interesting places. :)

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Re: Starthief's Eurorack adventure, 2016-???

Post by forestcaver » Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:49 pm

I really like Blinds but usually only use two channels - so I made this (4hp 2-channels of Blinds but can chain an unlimited number together or chain them with my 4hp 2-channels of veils :-) ).... I messed up the panel but will re-order panels with the design below.... (not going to sell it - diy only):
Attachments
2B_01.jpg
2B_01.jpg (35.67 KiB) Viewed 90 times
2B_02.JPG
2B_02.JPG (57.81 KiB) Viewed 90 times
2B_03.jpg

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