Starthief's Eurorack adventure, 2016-???

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autopoiesis
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Re: Starthief's Eurorack adventure, 2016-???

Post by autopoiesis » Thu Aug 06, 2020 4:56 pm

Besfar wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 1:57 pm
autopoiesis wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:23 am
I hear you on Odessa but I've come to love mine. what is lacking right now are demos of how a light touch of fm completely transforms Odessa. I'll throw something up on Soundcloud soon as well to show what I mean
Go for it :)
Everything thats fm'ed is interesting.
yeah so here you go, a technical demo. light exponential FM from a sine oscillator is added from 00:24 onwards. for my tastes the linear FM isn't as interesting (when the other timbral controls are messed with) as is a very light touch of exponential FM. some animation of the comb section (Warp & Density & Peaking) brings out a really unique character in the oscillator under expo FM. in this recording only Warp was modulated (besides frequency).


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Re: Starthief's Eurorack adventure, 2016-???

Post by Besfar » Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:12 pm

autopoiesis wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 4:56 pm

yeah so here you go, a technical demo. light exponential FM from a sine oscillator is added from 00:24 onwards. for my tastes the linear FM isn't as interesting (when the other timbral controls are messed with) as is a very light touch of exponential FM. some animation of the comb section (Warp & Density & Peaking) brings out a really unique character in the oscillator under expo FM. in this recording only Warp was modulated (besides frequency).

Coooool 🤘😎🤘

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Re: Starthief's Eurorack adventure, 2016-???

Post by Besfar » Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:14 pm

Besfar wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:12 pm
autopoiesis wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 4:56 pm

yeah so here you go, a technical demo. light exponential FM from a sine oscillator is added from 00:24 onwards. for my tastes the linear FM isn't as interesting (when the other timbral controls are messed with) as is a very light touch of exponential FM. some animation of the comb section (Warp & Density & Peaking) brings out a really unique character in the oscillator under expo FM. in this recording only Warp was modulated (besides frequency).

Coooool 🤘😎🤘
Dropping the fm as you do there has the same effect as dropping the bass on the dancefloor.

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Re: Starthief's Eurorack adventure, 2016-???

Post by starthief » Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:40 pm

Hmm, it's not quite what I imagined... interesting but probably not something I would use. I appreciate the example though, now I can place it :)

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Re: Starthief's Eurorack adventure, 2016-???

Post by autopoiesis » Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:47 pm

that's kind of the thing with Odessa in general, for me as well : "interesting, but not sure if it's something I would use". I take it as a challenge of sorts.

also bear in mind that I just recorded direct to audio interface from Odessa here. VCAs, filters, FX, and not to mention any shred of musical intention - they help a lot

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Re: Starthief's Eurorack adventure, 2016-???

Post by starthief » Fri Aug 07, 2020 2:51 pm

EnOsc arrived, and I couldn't resist racking it and giving it a spin even though I'm technically still working :D

First impressions:

Wow does it make some gorgeous sounds -- and a really wide range of them.

It's going to take a while to learn this. Intellectually I know what the premise is and what each knob does, and the theory behind the different types of scales. But being able to use it intuitively -- to have some prediction of what will happen when I turn a knob, from a particular state -- is going to require some experience. Everything interacts with everything else and I will need to develop a feel for how. For instance, change the balance and you've affected the overall panning (if you're monitoring the A and B outputs in stereo).

Even addressing the pitch is different and complicated on this module. Sure, there's a regular V/OCT pitch input like any other oscillator, changing the master tuning without getting the specialized quantization stuff involved. But there's also a Root V/OCT input. Changes there will trigger oscillator crossfading, which might interact with the cross-FM, which can cause little grace notes and brass-like attacks without CVing anything else. It might also, depending on the scale, cause different sets of intervals to be used, affecting the cross-FM or any distortion you might apply after the module.

And while you're sequencing/modulating the root, spread and even the scale, you can toggle Freeze and lock some of the oscillators so they're playing on a completely different scale.

In terms of really getting familiar with it, I think there's more that's unfamiliar about it than Shapeshifter. But in terms of "turn knobs, find sweet spot" it's quite easy. It's just that, with EnOsc, those sweet spots are mainly going to be chords or chord-like -- you'd have to choose an octaves scale, or set the spread or number of oscillators really tight (and lose a lot of its charm) to escape that.

The relatively small size is kind of deceptive -- it makes it seem like it's a simpler module than it really is. As others have said, it eats attenuverters for breakfast. It probably should have been 26 HP (matching SMR and SWN, as well as E352 and Shapeshifter) and have mini-pot attenuverters built in.

(And maybe an FM jack. It can do exponential FM via the V/OCT input but then if you want to do normal sequencing, you've got to mix while keeping the pitch input at unity gain. However, it has so much timbral complexity without it that it's probably fine... like how Akemie's Castle has no external FM input :hihi:)

Overall I'd have to declare this one another winner :tu:

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Re: Starthief's Eurorack adventure, 2016-???

Post by Besfar » Fri Aug 07, 2020 5:57 pm

autopoiesis wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:47 pm
that's kind of the thing with Odessa in general, for me as well : "interesting, but not sure if it's something I would use". I take it as a challenge of sorts.

also bear in mind that I just recorded direct to audio interface from Odessa here. VCAs, filters, FX, and not to mention any shred of musical intention - they help a lot
There more i check out odessa the more i want one :omg:
It sure does sound alien like you say.
Hmmm.
Please send :help:

Ps whats the enosc?
Ah, i see. This is another additive one.
With extras.
Another one to check out :omg:

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Re: Starthief's Eurorack adventure, 2016-???

Post by starthief » Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:22 pm

I had a bit of a slowdown in recording during June and July, but have been feeling more inspired again lately and have recorded three tracks in the last week... :)

In tonight's session I was using Via OSC3 -- using the Beat output to trigger envelopes for another voice, which is really a cool way to keep modulation in sync. The OSC3 crashed, its panel controls and inputs failing to respond to any changes -- but it kept right on oscillating, and since I'd already tuned it for the drone I wanted out of it, I just ran with it :D

(I wound up patching the Osc1 output into VCFQ, used Osc2+3 to modulate VCFQ's frequency, and used the Notch output, which sounded pretty spiffy.)

Also I had something running through FM Aid, and had the four outputs (one of them filtered) going into Planar. But during my take I completely forgot to woggle the joystick at all, leaving it roughly centered. But in hindsight, where it sat was a pretty good balance and the song already had enough things crawling around :)

Sometimes when things go wrong, they go wrong in just the right way.

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Re: Starthief's Eurorack adventure, 2016-???

Post by Besfar » Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:49 pm

Im checking out your bandcamp site Starthief, you make some great music. Got that biosphere vibe.

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Re: Starthief's Eurorack adventure, 2016-???

Post by starthief » Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:14 am

Thanks! :stardance:

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Re: Starthief's Eurorack adventure, 2016-???

Post by starthief » Sat Aug 15, 2020 11:48 pm

Phonogene arrived today. Turns out it's an old one with the original knob style -- though the colors are off compared to how ModularGrid shows them -- but it does have the (relatively) newer firmware. I ordered some replacement knobs to make the attenuverter vs. "main" knobs more clear at a glance, and I may wind up getting a Grayscale panel later. Probably once I've spent a little more time learning it it won't really be needed though.

But anyway: it's a fun module :) I thought I was mostly going to ignore splices, but I found it's good to throw some in there to trigger the EOS output and then clock a sequencer (which can move through Organize to keep it linear, or not, while also sequencing other things).

Sure the memory is a little short, and it's mono... but I still thing I'm more into it than I would have been into Morphagene. I'm getting a 90s Oval sort of glitchy feel from it, which makes me happy :D

I see why Broken Echo is named that... I was imagining a more straightforward delay but it's definitely a bit on the wonky side. I'm going to have to play with it a bit more to see if I can figure out its behavior a little more than I have so far.

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Re: Starthief's Eurorack adventure, 2016-???

Post by dooj88 » Sun Aug 16, 2020 10:07 am

i dumped my morphagene a few years ago, wasn't really integrating into my stuff as more than a background texture generator.. and i never really dug in deeply often enough to remember all the key combinations. but i've had my eye on the phonogene since because it does look more immediate and straightforward. i adore Markus Popp, so that pushes up the want a lot higher!

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Re: Starthief's Eurorack adventure, 2016-???

Post by starthief » Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:22 am

I really like how my setup is working for me now...

- The Sweet 16 adds a bit more utility to a controller I already liked a lot. The smaller size of faders hasn't been an issue.

- Shapeshifter continues to astound me.

- ENOSC is awesome, and I'm finding it can serve as a bit more traditional-ish of an oscillator (with FM and waveshaping/folding) when the Balance is either fully CCW or fully CW (depending on the direction I want FM modulation to come from). Phase cancellation can be an issue with it, which I'd hoped to solve with a relatively automatic software plugin, but no luck so far.

- Phonogene makes me happy :tu:

- I'm kind of thinking about a Shelves, either as an addition to or replacement for FXDf. But I hear Joranalogue and Klavis both have stuff they're going to announce soon, so I'm going to wait at least a little bit :) Also, if I picked up Shelves I might find myself wanting to shelve Ripples... I don't know.

Also I haven't yet heard the demo that convinces me I need Desmodus Versio, but the thought is there. I'm pretty pleased with the software reverbs I have. Neither Erbe-Verb nor pedal reverbs lasted very long in my setup, nor have any Noise Engineering modules even when I respected the hell out of their sound. (*) But I'm thinking about feedback patching, and I do like how DV can climb up onto the fence between delay and reverb -- sort of approaching that from the opposite side of Mimeophon.

((*) I still believe that Loquelic would have been the oscillator of theirs I should have tried, and it's one of the few I didn't. But now I doubt I'd have a role for it not already handled by Shapeshifter, Akemie's Castle and ENOSC.)

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Re: Starthief's Eurorack adventure, 2016-???

Post by Buttons ARE toys » Fri Aug 21, 2020 12:00 pm

starthief wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:22 am
- I'm kind of thinking about a Shelves, either as an addition to or replacement for FXDf. But I hear Joranalogue and Klavis both have stuff they're going to announce soon, so I'm going to wait at least a little bit :) Also, if I picked up Shelves I might find myself wanting to shelve Ripples... I don't know.
Oh my--what have you heard about Joranalogue and Klavis planning something Shelves/FXDf-like? I'd love to see either of their takes on a fixed filterbank.
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Re: Starthief's Eurorack adventure, 2016-???

Post by starthief » Fri Aug 21, 2020 12:02 pm

Buttons ARE toys wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 12:00 pm
starthief wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:22 am
- I'm kind of thinking about a Shelves, either as an addition to or replacement for FXDf. But I hear Joranalogue and Klavis both have stuff they're going to announce soon, so I'm going to wait at least a little bit :) Also, if I picked up Shelves I might find myself wanting to shelve Ripples... I don't know.
Oh my--what have you heard about Joranalogue and Klavis planning something Shelves/FXDf-like? I'd love to see either of their takes on a fixed filterbank.
Sorry that was unclear, I have no idea what they have in mind -- I just don't want to commit the rest of my HP to anything quite yet :)

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Re: Starthief's Eurorack adventure, 2016-???

Post by Buttons ARE toys » Fri Aug 21, 2020 12:10 pm

Ohhhhh gotcha. Always interesting to see what those two have cooking up either way!
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Re: Starthief's Eurorack adventure, 2016-???

Post by SarahB » Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:12 am

Hey Starthief, I love to follow your reports on the evolution of your case. Always interesting and inspiring! Could you share a bit more about how you feel about Shapeshifter? Are you droning with it or sequencing it? What particular aspects astound you? I have an E370 and while I greatly enjoy the versatility that those four voices brings, I find the voices almost too hifi and smooth, and miss some grit and character. Shapey has always fascinated me!

Love to hear more :)

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Re: Starthief's Eurorack adventure, 2016-???

Post by starthief » Sat Aug 22, 2020 10:57 am

SarahB wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:12 am
Could you share a bit more about how you feel about Shapeshifter? Are you droning with it or sequencing it? What particular aspects astound you?
I haven't had it very long yet of course, but I've been inspired to record with it quite a bit while I have (the next album is coming along nicely). It's roughly half drones and half sequences, I'd say. I've also been using it for Phonogene fodder a bit.

I feel like it is extremely good at creating textures that make for busy drones -- it can sort of crawl and slip around and rattle and tick and fizz. A lot of it is due to the combination modes, and the way they interact due to phase and frequency differences. Some of the features on it feel like they add to module's capabilities, but many of them multiply those capabilities, and it stacks up exponentially. And of course with a little self-patching there are even more possibilities. As much as I liked Hertz Donut, there are much greater possibilities with this.

For instance, as I was typing this I fired it up to play around with it a bit. I've got Osc1 using the Cello2 bank, Osc2 Basic1. Osc2 is "Hold" synced to Osc1 with the half-sync option. Combo mode is Pong, Mult1 is 8. Out2 is patched to Shape1. I've got this rich and complex sound that stutters rhythmically, reminiscent of a big dot-matrix printer in an old-school computer room, which transforms radically if I apply some FM, sometimes shifting itself around in pitch. The timbre gets a bit less grindy if I switch to 1Shot sync mode, and sometimes a little more gnarly turning up Mod A (which by default, modulates the phase of Osc2 from Output 1). I can back out several of those modulations and features and it's still a complex and rich drone, and at each step some of the behavior can be really surprising.

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Re: Starthief's Eurorack adventure, 2016-???

Post by natureclubcassettes » Sat Aug 22, 2020 12:42 pm

Shapeshifter is such an awesome module. Whether as a complex osc, dual independent oscs, chord machine, wild LFO/env/pulse generator, percussion machine, analog wave wavefolder, vocoder, or delay/resonator or some combination of all these.

I've been using it just as a delay processor lately, either clocked or not, and it totally excels even at this task.

Glad you have been enjoying it, and don't forget to check this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=135321&sid=714a373 ... 27d93753ec

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Re: Starthief's Eurorack adventure, 2016-???

Post by starthief » Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:07 pm

It's really got endless possibilities :)

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Re: Starthief's Eurorack adventure, 2016-???

Post by SarahB » Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:00 pm

starthief wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 10:57 am
SarahB wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:12 am
Could you share a bit more about how you feel about Shapeshifter? Are you droning with it or sequencing it? What particular aspects astound you?
I haven't had it very long yet of course, but I've been inspired to record with it quite a bit while I have (the next album is coming along nicely). It's roughly half drones and half sequences, I'd say. I've also been using it for Phonogene fodder a bit.

I feel like it is extremely good at creating textures that make for busy drones -- it can sort of crawl and slip around and rattle and tick and fizz. A lot of it is due to the combination modes, and the way they interact due to phase and frequency differences. Some of the features on it feel like they add to module's capabilities, but many of them multiply those capabilities, and it stacks up exponentially. And of course with a little self-patching there are even more possibilities. As much as I liked Hertz Donut, there are much greater possibilities with this.

For instance, as I was typing this I fired it up to play around with it a bit. I've got Osc1 using the Cello2 bank, Osc2 Basic1. Osc2 is "Hold" synced to Osc1 with the half-sync option. Combo mode is Pong, Mult1 is 8. Out2 is patched to Shape1. I've got this rich and complex sound that stutters rhythmically, reminiscent of a big dot-matrix printer in an old-school computer room, which transforms radically if I apply some FM, sometimes shifting itself around in pitch. The timbre gets a bit less grindy if I switch to 1Shot sync mode, and sometimes a little more gnarly turning up Mod A (which by default, modulates the phase of Osc2 from Output 1). I can back out several of those modulations and features and it's still a complex and rich drone, and at each step some of the behavior can be really surprising.
Thanks for the insight Starthief! Looking forward to hearing the album when it’s ready :)

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Re: Starthief's Eurorack adventure, 2016-???

Post by dooj88 » Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:30 pm

i sold the SS because i wasn't overly fond of the sound, and i made a bunch of presets i loved and kinda got lazy with exploration. but i remember (i hope i get this right, it's been a while) one of my favorite things to do with it was to turn MULTI up to 8, set detune at one or two, set up a chord with a 2 octave spread and run it into another oscillator's sync input, like the e352 and listen to it jitter around trying to figure out what to sync to.

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Re: Starthief's Eurorack adventure, 2016-???

Post by starthief » Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:16 am

dooj88 wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:30 pm
one of my favorite things to do with it was to turn MULTI up to 8, set detune at one or two, set up a chord with a 2 octave spread and run it into another oscillator's sync input, like the e352 and listen to it jitter around trying to figure out what to sync to.
Heh... confusing a sync input or a PLL can be fun :)

I ordered an FX Aid XL (which I didn't even know existed until an hour ago!)... that should probably satisfy my comb filter curiosity and provide other effects besides. I'd been avoiding the 4HP version because it seemed annoying to use, but with more knob-twiddling space (and labels) and separate CV inputs for each parameter, the XL seems like I'd like it more.

In non-Euro stuff, I have a DigDugDIY Purple Rain on the way (a lo-fi compressor and sample reducer/freezer), as well as an Artiphon Orba that I Kickstarted last year (probably more of a toy than anything, but it might provide the occasional sample or drone).

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Re: Starthief's Eurorack adventure, 2016-???

Post by natureclubcassettes » Sun Aug 23, 2020 12:12 pm

starthief wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:16 am

I ordered an FX Aid XL (which I didn't even know existed until an hour ago!)... that should probably satisfy my comb filter curiosity and provide other effects besides. I'd been avoiding the 4HP version because it seemed annoying to use, but with more knob-twiddling space (and labels) and separate CV inputs for each parameter, the XL seems like I'd like it more.
Did not see this either. Seeing as it's Spin based, are any of the delay algorithms clockable? I know TTA was able to find a workaround, but hadn't heard if HN had as well.

Digital delays that can't be clocked are a deal breaker in my book*. Was jamming with a friend the other day with a delay that couldn't be clocked and I had to manually re-sync by ear every time we changed tempos. Plus it was a module that had mini-knobs for delay time, making it even worse.

(* 80s rack mount digital delays not included. Love my DEP-5 to death)

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Re: Starthief's Eurorack adventure, 2016-???

Post by SavageMessiah » Sun Aug 23, 2020 1:15 pm

Yeah, there's a clocked delay on FX AID. Most of the delays aren't clocked though.

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