shape shifter chord mode question

Cwejman, Livewire, TipTop Audio, Doepfer etc... Get your euro on!

Moderators: luketeaford, Joe., lisa, Kent

merretich
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 464
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:11 pm

shape shifter chord mode question

Post by merretich » Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:04 pm

Is it possible to change inversions with cv on the shapeshifter? Or isn't it necessary to have inversions because i noticed that wavetable osc sometimes change the frequency by an octave when morphing through the tables…

Im asking this question because id like to use the shapeshifter for modular dub techno. I also considering to get a quantimator(quantizer which outputs three cv for three oscs to have inversions) instead. Any recommendations/experiences?

User avatar
metaBit
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 600
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:17 pm
Location: BC

Post by metaBit » Wed Oct 08, 2014 8:06 pm

I haven't tried this, but have been meaning to. I believe you could set up multiple presets, all the same sound (or not!), all using chord mode, but set to different chord types. You could then use the Shapeshifter's step feature to step through the presets to get your different chord types. You could also send different pitch CV if you wanted to.

I also have a Quantimator for chords because I love making dub techno on my eurorack too!

I'm going to have to try this Shapeshifter technique tonight to see if it works. ;)

User avatar
jjclark
Professor Wiggler
Posts: 715
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2009 6:06 pm
Location: Montreal

Post by jjclark » Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:10 pm

The shapeshifter has inversions (if that's what you are asking) for most chords where it makes sense to do so. So, as metaBit says you could load different ones into separate contiguous preset slots, and then use Preset Step mode, set to use the modB CV to select the preset.

User avatar
Dcramer
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 5420
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:11 pm
Location: Canada

Post by Dcramer » Wed Oct 08, 2014 11:18 pm

And is this the same technique used to get different chord types (qualities) in sequence? By stepping through presets? Or is there any way to cv the chord type directly?

Dstone
Common Wiggler
Posts: 177
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:08 pm
Location: San Francisco

Post by Dstone » Thu Oct 09, 2014 1:10 am

I'm pretty sure you have to make presets with different chords and step thru to change the chord. I do have the older firmware so maybe this has changed.

User avatar
metaBit
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 600
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:17 pm
Location: BC

Post by metaBit » Thu Oct 09, 2014 1:29 am

I just made this example:

[soundcloud url="https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/171304396" params="auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_user=true&show_reposts=false&visual=true" width="100%" height="450" iframe="true" /]

Intellijel Shapeshifter through Synthesis Technology E440 and Modcan Dual Delay sequenced by Metropolis. Jomox Modbase09 kick. Rubicon through Mutable Instruments Ripples and Synthesis Technology E580 sequenced by Make Noise Pressure Points/Brains.

It steps through 3 presets, first on is a minor chord, then to the second inversion, then the first inversion and then repeat. I was just used the first 3 user preset slots and set the begin to 1 and end to 3. Sent a pulse to the sync input to advance through this sequence. Next time I'd like to try using the ModB input to sequence in whatever order I want rather than just linear.

merretich
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 464
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:11 pm

Post by merretich » Thu Oct 09, 2014 5:11 am

thabks for the answers. how do save presets on the shape shifter? i mean does it eork well to change/save presets on the fly whilst jamming, or do i gor example f
have to stop playback ? do you guys like working with it in chord mode compared to three osc and quantimator (tuning all the time :/ ) ?

merretich
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 464
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:11 pm

Post by merretich » Thu Oct 09, 2014 5:31 am

and what about the rhythm mode? does it replace a vca? im asking this question because i thouht the strike input on the optomix could replace an envelope for rhythmic purposes. but i think the strike input is way to clicky and harsh.. so how about that?

ive also heard that its has got a delay integrated as well as a wavefolder. first i as well as a wavefolder. ive already got a wavefolder but im not using it too much (should probably use it more)
what do you think of the delay?

if i look at the features it seems to me as if it was an osc which (correct me if im wrong) can create a limitless amount of sounds. but im afraid that it can do so many things that all it becomes complicated to use and probably doesnt do propperly what it does. ive got an octatrack which has got heaps of functionalities but in my opioniom it can do so many things that
1. im not limited enough to make me try to use the instrument to its fullest extent.
2. that it makes it complicated and userunfriendly...

User avatar
dubonaire
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 6795
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:45 pm

Post by dubonaire » Thu Oct 09, 2014 5:49 am

It's up to you whether you use all or some of its features. I think it is an incredible module.

Chord mode gives you nice chords.

Optomix can be tamed. You need to get the right type of input in and adjust the two pots, that clicky harshness is easy to avoid.

merretich
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 464
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:11 pm

Post by merretich » Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:12 am

ok ill give the strike input on the optomix another try.. there are/is a potty on the backside of the optomix right? have you ever tried to adjust these?

merretich
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 464
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:11 pm

Post by merretich » Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:14 am

also: do you use the dpo as soundsource? might this be a reason?

User avatar
jjclark
Professor Wiggler
Posts: 715
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2009 6:06 pm
Location: Montreal

Post by jjclark » Thu Oct 09, 2014 8:47 am

Although I haven't tried this, you can send in a high frequency signal (like 10KHz or higher) to the SYNC input to step through the presets very quickly. Then the MODB will give a more or less continuous CV control over which preset is playing. You will get some 10KHz noise, but this could be filtered out.

User avatar
metaBit
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 600
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:17 pm
Location: BC

Post by metaBit » Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:21 am

I'd encourage the OP to read the Shapeshifter manual. It is a fantastic module and I don't really find it difficult to use at all. Just keep the manual handy and eventually it all sinks in. It is easy to change presets and as I demonstrated in the piece I shared last night, you can use Preset Step mode to step through presets. Chord mode on the Shapeshifter is great. I use it more than my Quantimator.

Optomix can definitely be tamed by adjusting the knobs on the front of the module. It is another module I couldn't do without.

merretich
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 464
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:11 pm

Post by merretich » Thu Oct 09, 2014 4:20 pm

metaBit wrote:I'd encourage the OP to read the Shapeshifter manual. It is a fantastic module and I don't really find it difficult to use at all. Just keep the manual handy and eventually it all sinks in. It is easy to change presets and as I demonstrated in the piece I shared last night, you can use Preset Step mode to step through presets. Chord mode on the Shapeshifter is great. I use it more than my Quantimator.

Optomix can definitely be tamed by adjusting the knobs on the front of the module. It is another module I couldn't do without.
i went and bought a shape shifty today ;) and its fucking GREAT! yes I'm going through the manual right now..

merretich
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 464
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:11 pm

Post by merretich » Thu Oct 09, 2014 4:21 pm

metaBit wrote:I'd encourage the OP to read the Shapeshifter manual. It is a fantastic module and I don't really find it difficult to use at all. Just keep the manual handy and eventually it all sinks in. It is easy to change presets and as I demonstrated in the piece I shared last night, you can use Preset Step mode to step through presets. Chord mode on the Shapeshifter is great. I use it more than my Quantimator.

Optomix can definitely be tamed by adjusting the knobs on the front of the module. It is another module I couldn't do without.
i went and bought a shape shifty today ;) and its fucking GREAT! yes I'm going through the manual right now..

User avatar
metaBit
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 600
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:17 pm
Location: BC

Post by metaBit » Thu Oct 09, 2014 4:25 pm

Hahaha. So good you had to post it twice!

Seriously though, the Shapeshifter just gets better and better the more time I spend with it. So deep but really really usable in my opinion.

Can't wait to hear what you do with it!

User avatar
Dcramer
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 5420
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:11 pm
Location: Canada

Post by Dcramer » Thu Oct 09, 2014 8:29 pm

Cool cause I just ordered mine!
Great track too MetaBit :party:

merretich
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 464
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:11 pm

Post by merretich » Sun Oct 12, 2014 5:15 am

im preparing for a live gig at the moment so the main thing i did so far with the shape shifter was to sample loops and sounds in order to make dub techno music. I think its great for chords. Just haven't understood yet how you switch preset via Gate...

User avatar
adolfgottmann
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 488
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:00 am
Location: Europe

Post by adolfgottmann » Sun Oct 12, 2014 10:19 am

Maybe it's a bit silly of me, and surely it's off-topic, but I'm starting to wonder if the shapeshifter would be a good choice for anyone who's not into techno and the like...most of discussions and demos seem to point in that direction.
I know a piece of gear makes the music you want it to do, but sometimes its features could not help you in doing that. I don't know, just a thought. I feel GAS on the SS, It's appears to be really deep and the idea of being able to sequence presets is really appealing to me but apart from the big hype on chord mode (well deserved, cause I realize it's s game changer for a lot of people) I don't see very much around that could help me or other guys in my predicament to make a decision. Does anyone else feels the same?

User avatar
exper
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 10092
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:41 am
Location: Southern NJ

Post by exper » Sun Oct 12, 2014 10:36 am

adolfgottmann wrote:Maybe it's a bit silly of me, and surely it's off-topic, but I'm starting to wonder if the shapeshifter would be a good choice for anyone who's not into techno and the like...most of discussions and demos seem to point in that direction.
I know a piece of gear makes the music you want it to do, but sometimes its features could not help you in doing that. I don't know, just a thought. I feel GAS on the SS, It's appears to be really deep and the idea of being able to sequence presets is really appealing to me but apart from the big hype on chord mode (well deserved, cause I realize it's s game changer for a lot of people) I don't see very much around that could help me or other guys in my predicament to make a decision. Does anyone else feels the same?
I feel differently. It is great for Techno for sure, BUT I often use it for much more experimental, complex sounds. If you look at it as a natural step beyond, say a Buchla 259e, then you're heading in the right direction. Extremely complex tones can be made, based on a dual osc (wavetables but also basic waves) TZFM, analog wavefolding, etc. Its also a BEAST if you put it into LFO mode, creating complex modulation shapes, semi-random sequences, triggers, etc.

In fact, I'm seriously contemplating trading my Braids for a second Shapeshifter now. As nice as braids is, I use just a few modes, all of which are much deeper when done with the shapeshifter. Even the possiblity of dedicating one to modulation and one to sound, the mind reels...

So fear not, its not just a techno chord machine! (though it does that brilliantly...)
_____________________________________________________________________________________________
FS/T Mackie QU-16C Digital Mixer/Interface
FS/T: Goike Folding Case / Grayscale Panels
FS/T: Intellijel 1U Midi & Audio IO
_____________________________________________________________________________________________
Image

User avatar
Dcramer
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 5420
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:11 pm
Location: Canada

Post by Dcramer » Sun Oct 12, 2014 10:37 am

Yeah I see your point and I think to some extent there's a little bit of marketing in that direction from Intellijel in general. However I've looked into the SS design a lot and it looks very programable and versatile. In fact I decided to skip Braids and go SS as it seems to be the more flexible, modular, design overall. I'm counting on it being useful as a complex Osc in a modular context and not just a dub by techno preset machine. Mine is coming next week so once I dig into it I'll post my results :party:

User avatar
jc3music
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 434
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:55 pm
Location: Scottsdale Arizona, USA

Post by jc3music » Sun Oct 12, 2014 10:51 am

Shapeshifter is a great dual OSC.

As others have stated, changing chords is a straight forward affair by switching user presets.

Not a very musical approach but all we have at the moment.

If we can scan a wavetable with CV, why not be able to choose chords with CV?

It seems to me that modular is growing to be more musical than experimental.

I welcome all changes that make my modular more musical.
jc3music.com

John Costello on itunes and fb.
JC3 Music on Soundcloud.

User avatar
adolfgottmann
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 488
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:00 am
Location: Europe

Post by adolfgottmann » Sun Oct 12, 2014 11:22 am

I dont really see musical and experimental as opposite, but I know what you mean...fact is that at some point people began to think experimental as unlistenable by design. It wasn't the idea at the beginning, I guess.
Anyway, I think I'll take a deep look to the SS manual (wow it came out a bit nazi :hihi: ), and maybe I'll give it a shot, money permitting. To be honest I hope the SS is a cyclebox on steroids, cause I really like cyclebox demos...
Or just buy both? Overkill?

User avatar
exper
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 10092
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:41 am
Location: Southern NJ

Post by exper » Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:27 pm

It definitely has the CB lineage for sure. Key difference is that the cb models it's basic waves whereas the Shapeshifter is all table based. There's also less combo modes on the shapeshifter. There's some more I can't recall, but the shapeshifter is a kindred spirit with the CB.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________
FS/T Mackie QU-16C Digital Mixer/Interface
FS/T: Goike Folding Case / Grayscale Panels
FS/T: Intellijel 1U Midi & Audio IO
_____________________________________________________________________________________________
Image

User avatar
jjclark
Professor Wiggler
Posts: 715
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2009 6:06 pm
Location: Montreal

Post by jjclark » Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:35 pm

jc3music wrote:Shapeshifter is a great dual OSC.
If we can scan a wavetable with CV, why not be able to choose chords with CV?
You CAN change chords using CV!

Use Preset Step set to use the MODB input to select the preset. The stepping (to the current MODB CV value) will happen when there is a pulse on the SYNC input. Think of it like a sample/hold for the chord type.

If you want to have continuous selection, just feed in a very high frequency pulse wave into SYNC. You will need to turn sync mode to "Sync Off" in each preset. And you can't use PERC MODE this way. But if you were using PERC MODE then you would probably want to just use the Gate (sync) to step the chord anyway.

Post Reply

Return to “Eurorack Modules”