The Next Blacet EG?

Blacet, Metalbox, Synthasonic, PAiA and the rest.... a frac frenzy!

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fracmonkey
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The Next Blacet EG?

Post by fracmonkey » Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:09 pm

Suggestions?

("The main reason for redesign is the huge, complex pcb and the wired jacks, which cost 5X the price of pcb mount. The new availability of the AS3310 will reduce the parts count significantly.")
Last edited by fracmonkey on Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Kent
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Post by Kent » Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:22 pm

Deeeep Effort.

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Noiseconformist
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Post by Noiseconformist » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:22 pm

configurable/adjustable slope shapes?

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werock
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Post by werock » Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:22 am

Feature wise the outgoing EG is pretty complete. If it's possible to cram it into a single width module that would be good. If not, maybe add something like trigger outs which go high at the end of the attack and/or decay stages to fill up some of the empty panel space.

Yesman
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Post by Yesman » Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:09 am

love the module as it is, I'll have to think of some extras.

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Moog$FooL$
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Post by Moog$FooL$ » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:29 am

what happened to the old one?? obsolete parts??
did John say why he's dumped it??

:despair:
i use to drink & smoke.
that fat cat had to go..... wasn't even mine.

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e-grad
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Post by e-grad » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:50 am

Flying wires never have annoyed me. However, new parameters such as hold and delay similar to the Korg MS 50 EG2 would be great.

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emmaker
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Post by emmaker » Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:01 pm

Only thing I didn't like was to use it as an LFO you have to tie the gate input high.

I can only think of a couple of other things to add.
1) Delay.
2) End of envelope to chain to other envelopes.

Jay S

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thee ghost ov n_phay
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Post by thee ghost ov n_phay » Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:45 pm

envelope slope(s) alterable with a switch or knob would be good, I like to feed the inv out into the decay time CV in because the curved slope sounds nicer but when I do that I need to patch in a mixer if I also want to control the decay time, which is OK, but obv would be loads easier if there was just a switch you could throw to get an exp decay.

A CV in for the envelope's output level would be good for adding dynamics via midi-cv velo out, sequencer row etc. Again, it can be achieved by other means IE patching the env out through a VCA but it would be much easier if that was "on board" so to speak.

As per upthread, and end gate out so you can chain envelopes together would be good, perhaps also an "unconditional contour" a la Moog Taurus 2 to go with it.

I would be quite happy to see the VC timescale section simplified, perhas a 3 way switch, super short/normal/loooong. I don't think I've ever used the timescale CV except when I built it to test it was working, obv that's just my use, other people might use that function a lot.

One thing that might be worth considering would be to design the board so it could be wired up as a full-function module, like the outgoing one, or as a low-fat one, you miss out the unnnecesary board components, winding up with a 1 1/2" wide module with just the basics (a, d, s, r, gate in, normal & inverted out, maye a lin/expo switch too, handy for those with high density systems perhaps.

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Synthnerd
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Post by Synthnerd » Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:35 pm

Great suggestions about slope change, delay, chaining, etc.

Picking up on what werock said, I wonder if there could be a separate gate out for the duration of each section A-D-S-R. Each out could trigger another EG or DAD to sweep a filter, 2100 wave cv input, or a Miniwave, while the master EG analog output controls a VCA for the full duration of the note. Would add possibilities for a lot of animation to the sound of a single note.

If all 3 or 4 gates from ADSR went into something like the 2040, I think one could set the separate gate CVs to levels that specifically select the waves from a Miniwave table? Without, one is slaved to the continuous CV output of a single EG scanning though the whole or adjacent portions of the table.

Something like a digital 3 or 4 stage sequencer function output with control of note duration, synchronized to the master EG ADSR continuous analog output.
(Separated digital gates out of the 4052 up front of the analog capacitor section ?).

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fracmonkey
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LFO Mode

Post by fracmonkey » Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:39 pm

"Only thing I didn't like was to use it as an LFO you have to tie the gate input high."

To get a free running AD LFO, connect the Invert Out to the Gate. Switch to adsr/lfo and Sustain to zero.

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emmaker
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Re: LFO Mode

Post by emmaker » Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:00 pm

fracmonkey wrote:To get a free running AD LFO, connect the Invert Out to the Gate. Switch to adsr/lfo and Sustain to zero.
Thanks!

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fracmonkey
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EG PCBS

Post by fracmonkey » Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:02 pm


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Kyhotay
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Post by Kyhotay » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:01 pm

I never was crazy about the time base pot. I would prefer a long/med/short switch. I would like to see ala PAiA 4740 ADSR a fixed out along with a variable + out to go along with the variable inverted out. Trigger outs at the end of A, D & R is cool.

But what I would really like to see is a FRAC quad envelope generator! :nana:
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fracmonkey
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VC Timebase is Out

Post by fracmonkey » Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:42 pm

VC timebase replaced by 3 position switch. Originally designed to eliminate a rotary switch but some parts now very expensive (Max364 $5). Used to buy these by the 1000s for a $1ea. How long before DIP stuff is priced out?

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J3RK
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Post by J3RK » Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:24 pm

Kyhotay wrote:But what I would really like to see is a FRAC quad envelope generator! :nana:
Something like a Frac-style Buchla 281 would be great!

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Kyhotay
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Post by Kyhotay » Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:54 pm

Now you're talkin'! Start designing it!
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J3RK
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Post by J3RK » Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:45 pm

I've got a very similar (different circuit but similar function) slope generator. However, I'd want to add voltage control to the slopes for a quad module. I'll need to think about how to put that in a bit. It would be a fun module to make though.

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Kyhotay
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Post by Kyhotay » Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:20 pm

Anything would be welcomed in our drought-stricken FRAC world!! :help:

The good news-bad news is we don't have new modules coming out every 2.73 seconds. :deadbanana:
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fracmonkey
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Post by fracmonkey » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:55 am

Kyhotay wrote:Anything would be welcomed in our drought-stricken FRAC world!! :help:

The good news-bad news is we don't have new modules coming out every 2.73 seconds. :deadbanana:
Yes, a visit to the Euro page is dizzying!
Needless to say, a few more Frac customers would be a great thing.

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Post by Kyhotay » Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:51 am

That's the sad truth about this all. Euro really took off and left FRAC in the dust. Without customers there's no money to expand and grow the line. :bang:

And with some major players in the market now, Euro is just gonna get bigger, while the modules get denser. So soon we will have a group of musicians that have tiny hands and fingers and, at best, will only be able to stretch their finders to play fifths on the keyboard.

In your opinion, how does FRAC sales stack up against 5U? F'instance, how well does the 5U Time Machine sell in 5U?
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Post by sizone » Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:20 am

hold attack hold decay sustain release, looping. that's what I really want. preferably with level controls for the attack, sustain and release stages. if there are level controls for the asr stages, a bipolar output would be cool. I've been spoiled by a lifetime of digital envelopes. if it were possible to, when looping, skip the sustain stage and go to the release level from the sustain level at the release rate, that would also be cool.

maybe a single cv in for attack and decay times.

-maybe- firmly indented, but not drilled out, spots on the panel and a little extra space on the board, or a header, in case someone wants to add gate/trigger outs for the individual stages.

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monstrinho
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Post by monstrinho » Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:26 am

I guess I would really like to see a few more modules with the boards parallel to the front panel, like the Hex Zone. I've just built a desktop skiff style frac case which is great for my Synth Tech and Wiard modules, plus some various diy stuff, but there would definitely be room for a new look Blacet EG! :guinness:

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Acid Mitch
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Post by Acid Mitch » Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:08 pm

Pings and variable slopes are good ideas. :yay:

I’d like to see sliders for the adsr controls instead of knobs.

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fracmonkey
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Post by fracmonkey » Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:36 am

Acid Mitch wrote: I’d like to see sliders for the adsr controls instead of knobs.
They are great visual feedback. I have a software Arp Odyssey on my iPad. But would not fit in Frac of course...

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