An actual resonant lowpass filter

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metasonix
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Post by metasonix » Fri May 11, 2018 10:49 pm

going to try to put it on an RK panel. It might just barely fit. Not sure if there will be space for another vactrol to give control of resonance....

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Post by otoskope » Sat May 12, 2018 5:27 am

To me it makes a huge difference with VC resonance. I mostly work with either generative or gestural control of everything, i.e., no knob turning during play, and then another CV input really means something for the possibilities.

So, if possible, I'd like to encourage you to try to squeeze in that extra vactrol!
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Post by EPTC » Sat May 12, 2018 5:10 pm

metasonix wrote:Not sure if there will be space for another vactrol to give control of resonance....
otoskope wrote:To me it makes a huge difference with VC resonance.

So, if possible, I'd like to encourage you to try to squeeze in that extra vactrol!
Yeah, totally.

I know the RK format is successful but man, I'd gladly pay the extra HP (and cost) for a wider panel that had resonance CV.

Maybe an additional aid module?
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Post by dephonator » Sun May 13, 2018 2:28 am

EPTC wrote:
metasonix wrote:Not sure if there will be space for another vactrol to give control of resonance....
I know the RK format is successful but man, I'd gladly pay the extra HP (and cost) for a wider panel that had resonance CV.

Maybe an additional aid module?
Please make it as full featured as possible in ONE module. No need to squeeze it into the RK standard IMHO.

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Post by FatRocky » Sun May 13, 2018 6:48 pm

i don´t mind more hp

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Post by EPTC » Mon May 14, 2018 12:31 pm

Could you make it deeper module too, maybe an extra board in the back, stacked behind the RK width?
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Post by Yes Powder » Mon May 14, 2018 12:59 pm

EPTC wrote:Could you make it deeper module too, maybe an extra board in the back, stacked behind the RK width?
This, maybe? A deeper module is fine by me.

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Post by luchog » Mon May 14, 2018 1:41 pm

EPTC wrote:
metasonix wrote:Not sure if there will be space for another vactrol to give control of resonance....
otoskope wrote:To me it makes a huge difference with VC resonance.

So, if possible, I'd like to encourage you to try to squeeze in that extra vactrol!
Yeah, totally.

I know the RK format is successful but man, I'd gladly pay the extra HP (and cost) for a wider panel that had resonance CV.
I'll second (third?) this. I'd gladly have a larger panel if it means CV resonance control. I'm on the fence on whether I'd get one without that feature, since I lean heavily toward self-generating patches where I don't have to stand and twiddle knobs.
dephonator wrote:Please make it as full featured as possible in ONE module. No need to squeeze it into the RK standard IMHO.
Definitely. I've noticed very few Eurorack manufacturers standardize all their panel sizes. Having a size in between the R and RK series I don't think would put many people off.
Yes Powder wrote:
EPTC wrote:Could you make it deeper module too, maybe an extra board in the back, stacked behind the RK width?
This, maybe? A deeper module is fine by me.
This too, although that may end up putting off a few people who are using shallower skiffs. Of course, those generally don't seem to be the sort to go in for Metasonix modules anyway...

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Post by dephonator » Mon May 21, 2018 3:13 am

luchog wrote:
Yes Powder wrote:
EPTC wrote:Could you make it deeper module too, maybe an extra board in the back, stacked behind the RK width?
This, maybe? A deeper module is fine by me.
This too, although that may end up putting off a few people who are using shallower skiffs. Of course, those generally don't seem to be the sort to go in for Metasonix modules anyway...
In fact, I put my R-56 in a Frap Tools Plus, which is my preferred case to expand my system nowadays. All my Doepfer G6s are full. So my vote is for wider instead of deeper :-)

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Post by metasonix » Wed May 23, 2018 8:41 pm

what can I say, we make a wide module and I get a raft of complaints. More than once I've been asked in all seriousness "why can't you make all your modules 2hp wide".

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Post by dephonator » Thu May 24, 2018 2:36 am

metasonix wrote:what can I say, we make a wide module and I get a raft of complaints. More than once I've been asked in all seriousness "why can't you make all your modules 2hp wide".
You do not want those idiots as your customers :metasonix:

OK, then make is as deep as it has to be, but please give us resonance control. Please!

Anyway... someone will always complain, no matter what you do, someone will even accuse you of making completely unmusical devices :bang:

But would this 2HP thing be doable? Are there miniature tubes you could put in? It's a serious question, I'm not a tube expert, maybe it's even possible to built something like that?

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Post by Robscorch » Thu May 24, 2018 7:09 am

Ive been paying attention to Korg's nanotube. It might be doable, but idk if they have given out any samples to play with yet.

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Post by luchog » Thu May 24, 2018 9:31 am

metasonix wrote:what can I say, we make a wide module and I get a raft of complaints. More than once I've been asked in all seriousness "why can't you make all your modules 2hp wide".
I'm betting those are the sort of idiots who complain that their brand new module "doesn't work", because they haven't read the manual thoroughly. Not really the sort of customers one wants.
Robscorch wrote:Ive been paying attention to Korg's nanotube. It might be doable, but idk if they have given out any samples to play with yet.
Not even remotely worth the effort or money. It's just a basic vacuum fluorescent triode. Those things have been commonly used as displays in just about any kind of consumer electronics for at least the last half-century. You can get piles of them for free by scavenging dead VCRs or stereo gear made since the '80s, since the overwhelming majority of them used Vacuum Fluorescent Displays (anything with a blue-white display rather than red or LCD).

Their sound is decidedly unimpressive compared to either conventional thermionic valves, or common solid-state hardware, and they have horrible microphonics.

There are websites all over the net that provide info on making amps with scavenged VFDs.

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Post by Yes Powder » Thu May 24, 2018 11:45 am

From the Metasonix website:
Yes, there are low-power directly-heated subminiature tubes, like the 1J24B tetrode used in the L-1 VCA module. They are quite limited in voltage gain and applications, because they were designed to save power in battery-operated equipment. We use the NOS tubes we use, and not the 1J24B or similar ones, for reasons of performance and availability. Most Metasonix designs can NOT be implemented with low-power tubes.

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Post by ritchiedrums » Thu May 24, 2018 9:44 pm

Release date ?? :hyper:

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Post by metasonix » Fri May 25, 2018 1:46 am

Robscorch wrote:Ive been paying attention to Korg's nanotube.
You're joking, right? That thing was a massive flop. They passed out samples to guitar amp mfrs--no takers. Too expensive, "doesn't sound like a 12AX7", "not enough gain", and they could not figure out how to power the directly heated cathode. Even though it's nothing but a modified vacuum fluorescent display. (Ask a VCR manufacturer, you idiots.)

I gather Korg is stuck with thousands of production units from 2013. That is why they are selling them to hobbyists. Who are also NOT buying them.
Please. I've got about 400 of those--does anyone want to buy them all?
Release date ??
Maybe a couple months. It all fits into an RK module, just barely. Even the resonance CV input and three vactrols and a transformer. (Jesus christ, a transformer. What the fuck is wrong with me.)

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Post by ritchiedrums » Sat May 26, 2018 12:32 pm

metasonix wrote:
Robscorch wrote:Ive been paying attention to Korg's nanotube.
(Jesus christ, a transformer. What the fuck is wrong with me.)

AMEN!! :zen:

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Post by ritchiedrums » Sat May 26, 2018 12:38 pm

NuTube is happening.

I don't think it will be anything like a Metasonix sound.

Shouldn't it be NoTube :lol:

[video][/video]

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Post by Yes Powder » Sat May 26, 2018 1:22 pm

ritchiedrums wrote:NuTube is happening.
Them microphonics, tho... (Skip to 14:07)
[video][/video]

Apparently the gain on them is stupidly low, like 14. That's lower than a faulty germanium transistor. The only thing they're good for is "tube" distortion since you'd still need a solid-state poweramp to actually drive anything with one.

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Post by metasonix » Sat May 26, 2018 5:00 pm

ritchiedrums wrote:NuTube is happening.
Remains to be seen how popular those pedals will be.....try selling "new technology" to boomer guitarists over the age of 60. They don't want "new" anything, they want exact copies of 1969 technology, over and over again.

As I have discovered to my great displeasure. More than 20 years ago I built a working wah pedal using tubes and a variable capacitor instead of a pot (so no pot to wear out and have to be replaced regularly). It was duly presented to the old men at Guitar Player magazine, who proceeded to complain that it "didn't sound like a Cry Baby" and "didn't feel like a Cry Baby". And THEY were the ones who asked if it was possible.

I suspect that new ideas will catch on in electric guitars only when all the Jeff-Beck-worshipping boomers have died off.
Yes Powder wrote:Them microphonics, tho... (Skip to 14:07)
Apparently the gain on them is stupidly low, like 14. That's lower than a faulty germanium transistor. The only thing they're good for is "tube" distortion since you'd still need a solid-state poweramp to actually drive anything with one.
Anyone who has experimented with regular VF displays could have told you this. The microphony is very similar to the "ding" from nuvistors, in fact. There are reasons why nuvistors were never used in guitar amps. Korg is going to repeat the mistakes of the past.

http://www.electronicpeasant.com/projec ... trmod.html

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Post by otoskope » Sat May 26, 2018 5:11 pm

Wow, that was an interesting link! So they are literally little harps :D Ethereal sounds from that ring modulator. Thanks for posting.
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Post by metasonix » Sat May 26, 2018 5:25 pm

PS, I've been trying to order PC boards for the filter. It appears that the good people of Express PCB have disappeared for an extra-long Memorial Day weekend. And shut down their server. Without warning.

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Post by metasonix » Sat May 26, 2018 5:39 pm

otoskope wrote:Wow, that was an interesting link! So they are literally little harps :D Ethereal sounds from that ring modulator.
FWIW he was NOT intending that, he was originally trying to build a proper instrument amplifier....unless you want ethereal screeches, VFDs are awful little things.

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Post by otoskope » Sat May 26, 2018 6:29 pm

:D I got that. But personally I love ethereal screeches. Those were nice, of the H.P. Lovecraft horror-variety!

Btw, I just realized I got my first Metasonix (a Wretch) in May, 10 years ago! After an unsuccessfull attempt at getting a TM-1/TM-3/TM-6 combo in Europe two years earlier. So, I'll have a beer for that! Cheers!
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