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Rebel Technology: Stoicheia
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next [all]
Author Rebel Technology: Stoicheia
Paranormal Patroler
And since it's performance oriented as Umcorps wrote earlier people will definitely be saying at my shows: "It all sounds Greek to me" seriously, i just don't get it






(I'm shutting up now)
dephonator
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
Will it make everything sounds like Xenakis ? applause


Yes. But only with the expander hihi And then get a dozen of Stoicheas (expanded of cause) and a handful of sister modules by the name of Stochastica thumbs up
Paranormal Patroler
I was actually thinking that one would need at least 9U of Logic modules to start making stochastic modular music. hmmm.....
dephonator
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
I was actually thinking that one would need at least 9U of Logic modules to start making stochastic modular music. hmmm.....


I was joking of cause... but seriously, do you think proper stochastic music can be done with modulars at all - i mean, without a computer?

Very interesting topic... Maybe this would be worth a new thread?
Paranormal Patroler
dephonator wrote:
I was joking of cause... but seriously, do you think proper stochastic music can be done with modulars at all - i mean, without a computer?

Very interesting topic... Maybe this would be worth a new thread?


I did get the joke, but the subject is indeed interesting. Maybe I should refresh my memory on Xenakis's books. It might be possible but you'd certainly need lots of logic, that's for sure.
dephonator
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
Maybe I should refresh my memory on Xenakis's books.


I have 'Formalized Music' here. Scanned through it a couple of times but most of it is just a tad too mathematical for me hmmm.....

hihi
Paranormal Patroler
Math is my breakfast, I'll give it a go.
headband
Does anyone know if there is one of these on hand at Schneidersbuero?? Would love to play with it in the flesh, albeit the fact I'm pretty much already sold on this module screaming goo yo
Norman_Phay
Junk Rhythm wrote:
Any chance this module will be available as a DIY kit in the future?


Yeah I'd be interested in a kit of this as well, esp if it works off 15V
pavementsands
re: Formalised music (apologies for continuing the sidetrack)

I'm a huge Xenakis nerd and I've spent a lot of time with Formalised Music. I don't think it's the maths that's the problem - it's just a horribly written book! Having read a fair few of his essays outside of FM, his style is more or less always reasonably opaque - but on the whole readable.

For whatever reason whether its the translation or whatever else, in parts of FM, that opaqueness reaches its pinaccle. The actual ideas, when you get down to them, aren't generally all that difficult, but their expression makes it one of the most needlessly difficult books I've read.
Paranormal Patroler
pavementsands wrote:
re: Formalised music (apologies for continuing the sidetrack)

I'm a huge Xenakis nerd and I've spent a lot of time with Formalised Music. I don't think it's the maths that's the problem - it's just a horribly written book! Having read a fair few of his essays outside of FM, his style is more or less always reasonably opaque - but on the whole readable.

For whatever reason whether its the translation or whatever else, in parts of FM, that opaqueness reaches its pinaccle. The actual ideas, when you get down to them, aren't generally all that difficult, but their expression makes it one of the most needlessly difficult books I've read.


Is it a translation from French or from Greek? Xenakis was an interesting personality as well as an interesting musical thinker, but an astounding writer and theoretician he was most certainly not.

Thankfully there are tons of books written on Xenakis's work nowadays so it's more than easy to find what you're looking for written by some other person in a clear way.

I do agree on the ideas not being all that difficult. But most people tend to be phased by the simple fact that it has to do with math. Apart from that, what with Xenakis being Greek, I do find that his opaqueness was part of his understanding of the difficulty most people have when tackling such subjects as well as his need to keep things difficult so as to make them look serious and formal.

Academics. Meh
earlykooka
-> Dephonator
Actually, joking -and Xenakis- aside, you got me thinking there ... it seems to me that even 2x ( preferably Expanded ;-) ) Stoeichias feeding back into each other would give some really extremely complex rhythmic patterns ... though I would think you'd need to have some sort of clock divider in the loop too to bring the timebase back to something reasonable every once in a while or else you'd tend to get some sort of an infinite fractal accelarando ( which maybe could be good for a while too !)

Actually one CV controlled one and one straight one would probably easier to keep just the right side of chaos, because obviously the effect of the CV on one would already effect the other one ...

That might even be enough of a reason for me to, ( despite my pro-expander militancy ;-) ) get one of the current model anyway, while waiting for RebTech to decide whether to go for the expander/and or another CV'd module ...

Still be good if you rebels made up your minds ASAP though ;-)
pavementsands
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
pavementsands wrote:
re: Formalised music (apologies for continuing the sidetrack)

I'm a huge Xenakis nerd and I've spent a lot of time with Formalised Music. I don't think it's the maths that's the problem - it's just a horribly written book! Having read a fair few of his essays outside of FM, his style is more or less always reasonably opaque - but on the whole readable.

For whatever reason whether its the translation or whatever else, in parts of FM, that opaqueness reaches its pinaccle. The actual ideas, when you get down to them, aren't generally all that difficult, but their expression makes it one of the most needlessly difficult books I've read.


Is it a translation from French or from Greek? Xenakis was an interesting personality as well as an interesting musical thinker, but an astounding writer and theoretician he was most certainly not.

Thankfully there are tons of books written on Xenakis's work nowadays so it's more than easy to find what you're looking for written by some other person in a clear way.

I do agree on the ideas not being all that difficult. But most people tend to be phased by the simple fact that it has to do with math. Apart from that, what with Xenakis being Greek, I do find that his opaqueness was part of his understanding of the difficulty most people have when tackling such subjects as well as his need to keep things difficult so as to make them look serious and formal.

Academics. Meh


Don't want to drag this too far off topic, but I think he's actually a pretty fantastic theoretician. He's very rigorous compared to almost any other composer I can think of. (read some Stockhausen essays! Don't!). I don't think the importance of his criticism of serialism and the new direction that sparked gets the due it deserves in mainstream academia (for those of you who give a toss about that kind of thing - I only do rarely).
By its nature though - a compositional paradicm based on macro control over large numbers of events based processes - it's going to be hard (and expensive!) to apply that to modular synthesis smile (and thats before you get to his critique of fourier-centric synthesis methods).
But blah . Blah blah. Blah. smile

Formalised Music was written in French - not his first language obviously, and I guess that goes some way to explain it. Allegedly (though I don't read french so can't confirm) the translation is horrible too though.

To bring this back to topic, one of Xenakis' signature moves, for a period at least, was to superimpose multiple rythmic "sieves" to get complexity. His rhythmic "sieves" have a huge overlap with the patterns this thing will produce. Not really "stochastic", but a couple of these could put you in that kind of Xenakis territory I reckon.

(it looks a lovely module - I've been playing with Euclid rhythms in MAX and they're a lot of fun - the idea of that in a compact tweakable package with the features you've added would be pretty enticing if (I had any money!)
dephonator
headband wrote:
Does anyone know if there is one of these on hand at Schneidersbuero?? Would love to play with it in the flesh, albeit the fact I'm pretty much already sold on this module screaming goo yo


Just got a mail from Tom informing me that the Stoi has arrived...
dephonator
pavementsands wrote:
To bring this back to topic, one of Xenakis' signature moves, for a period at least, was to superimpose multiple rythmic "sieves" to get complexity. His rhythmic "sieves" have a huge overlap with the patterns this thing will produce. Not really "stochastic", but a couple of these could put you in that kind of Xenakis territory I reckon.


That's what my intuition was telling me when I heard about this module:-) I will practice some trial and error methods nobody has ever used before (haha) and we will see:hihi: Maybe using it together with RCD, SCM, TT... and Plog, etc... Seriously: i'm a huge Xenakis admirer... I'm planning a tribute track...
Paranormal Patroler
pavementsands wrote:
Don't want to drag this too far off topic, but I think he's actually a pretty fantastic theoretician.


Oh don't get me wrong, I do admire most of his work (not everything he has done is that good really). But as a true artist most of his work method stayed in his head. Do not forget that Xenakis never had the need (monetary or otherwise) to teach. Reading Stravinsky's Musical Poetry you can tell that one composer can theorize and then analyze his ideas whereas the other cannot.

And let me quote Leon Harkleroad's book The Math Behind the Music, page 90 on Xenakis: "Unfortunately his writings about the mathematical aspects of his music tend to obscure, rather than clarify his methods". Maybe I should've used the word teacher instead of theoretician? It's just that the word being Greek has another connotation entirely.

pavementsands wrote:
By its nature though - a compositional paradicm based on macro control over large numbers of events based processes - it's going to be hard (and expensive!) to apply that to modular synthesis smile


I have to disagree on this. Right from the bat it's nearly impossible to control nuances in a full fledged modular system. If the system is build up thus the sound is more controlled as a whole, a gesture. I'd love to discuss this further in a private message or on another thread. We've derailed this one long enough.

I do agree the Euclidean rhythms is one thing Xenakis worked on and it might give interesting results working with this module.

It's not like there are any stohastic modules out there!
Audio Dependent
Here are some quick jams/demos I have made with the Stoicheia at the heart of the patch:







Not the best visually and the camera kept cutting out so they're a bit short, but hopefully gives you an idea of the capabilities of this unique module.
Audio Dependent
Audio Dependent wrote:
Here are some quick jams/demos I have made with the Stoicheia at the heart of the patch:

[video]https://vimeo.com/46020009[/video]

[video]https://vimeo.com/46002331[/video]

[video]https://vimeo.com/46002332[/video]

Not the best visually and the camera kept cutting out so they're a bit short, but hopefully gives you an idea of the capabilities of this unique module.


err - cant figure out how to embed these - anyone?
dualmono
Great videos!
Thanks for sharing.
Guinness ftw!
dualmono
Audio Dependent wrote:
Audio Dependent wrote:
Here are some quick jams/demos I have made with the Stoicheia at the heart of the patch:

[video]https://vimeo.com/46020009[/video]

[video]https://vimeo.com/46002331[/video]

[video]https://vimeo.com/46002332[/video]

Not the best visually and the camera kept cutting out so they're a bit short, but hopefully gives you an idea of the capabilities of this unique module.


err - cant figure out how to embed these - anyone?



Hmm, try taking the s of https...
Or are you posting this from an iOS device via TouchBB?
Audio Dependent
dualmono wrote:
Audio Dependent wrote:
Audio Dependent wrote:
Here are some quick jams/demos I have made with the Stoicheia at the heart of the patch:

[video]https://vimeo.com/46020009[/video]

[video]https://vimeo.com/46002331[/video]

[video]https://vimeo.com/46002332[/video]

Not the best visually and the camera kept cutting out so they're a bit short, but hopefully gives you an idea of the capabilities of this unique module.


err - cant figure out how to embed these - anyone?



Hmm, try taking the s of https...
Or are you posting this from an iOS device via TouchBB?


ah yes thats it! Thank you smile
dualmono
Sure!
nanners
logicgate
cool videos! thumbs up

So, basically, stoicheia has 3 trigger outputs, and by the looks of you video, it's triggering 3 different EG's?
Audio Dependent
logicgate wrote:
cool videos! thumbs up

So, basically, stoicheia has 3 trigger outputs, and by the looks of you video, it's triggering 3 different EG's?


No it has 2 trigger outs. I am using stackables on the outs to split them. The 2 outer jacks are inputs/outputs for a clock - its setup like a multiple so either can be an in or an out, but it only responds to one clock. There is also a reset input, and a switch which lets you chain the sequences together so it plays one then the other out of both outs.

I have a skiff in front of the 6u which has an RCD in it which is providing the 4/4 kick in one of them in the other 2 the SQ8's gate out is triggering the kick.

I lost my patch notes but here's a basic overview from vimeo:

Rebel technologies Stoicheia is receiving a clock from the through of 4ms RCD and is being multiplied off to trigger input on both channels of A156 quantiser and both strike inputs on the optomix. The clock is then fed the SQ8 with the CV out going to the quantiser. One half of the optomix is being fed an input from the uFOLD which has both Dixies going into it and the E350 is going into the other. A simple 4/4 kick from the maths and one half of the Korgo is being clocked from the divide by 4 of the RCD.
synaptech
Junk Rhythm wrote:
Any chance this module will be available as a DIY kit in the future? Hell, even a kit that is just the PCB and panel would rock too.

Count me in for a pcb/panel or two if they're made available! Love the rhythms! woah
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