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TRS for standard Volta operation?
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Volta  
Author TRS for standard Volta operation?
Bath House
I can't quite find the answer to this on the official site - should one use standard 1/4" TRS cables for the Volta? I tend to only keep "patch" cables around, which are not TRS, just TS.
Ranxerox
You should use T-S cables. As a rule all modular synth CV connections are made via two-pin connectors, be they 1/4", 1/8", banana-jack or whatever. Obviously Volta is intended with this in mind.
1nput0utput
It would be better to use TRS-to-TS cables with the TRS ring left unconnected. If you use TS-to-TS cables, the interface output's ring conductor will be shorted to ground.
bar|none
See stretta's post on page one of Volta thread

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4104&start=0

>These aren't the cables you should use, though. You should use 1/4" TRS to TS cables, with the ring 'floating' A normal 1/4" TS cable will short the ring. The audio interface will attempt to keep the signal balanced and with DC voltages, this isn't a great idea.

He also said that T-S to T-S will work, just not ideal.

The one thing I'd like to know is if it's just not a great idea, or whether it actually affects the voltage range. It's gonna be awhile before I can figure out how to assemble such a cable as it's not exactly off the shelf.
bar|none
I think I just figured out what I'm going to do. I have a little blank metal pedal box that would be perfect to make a little patch bay.

1/4 TRS jacks in, with 1/8 T-S jacks I can patch regular cords to. I can wire it to make the sleeve float.

Again, gonna take a weekend morning to get that done.
1nput0utput
bar|none wrote:
I think I just figured out what I'm going to do. I have a little blank metal pedal box that would be perfect to make a little patch bay.

1/4 TRS jacks in, with 1/8 T-S jacks I can patch regular cords to. I can wire it to make the sleeve float.

Again, gonna take a weekend morning to get that done.

That's a great idea. Then you can use all "standard" cables.
Bath House
I'm sorry, maybe I'm not understanding something here; are we saying that Volta requires/recommends special cables that don't really exist unless you make them by hand? What is a "floating ring" and why is this preferable? Isn't "floating the ring" the same as only plugging a TRS 1/4" in half way?

I'm sure it was tongue-in-cheek, but Stretta's "using standard cables probably won't fry the interface" line makes me do this eek! eek! eek! when I just spent a whole paycheck on an 828 mkIII.
alt-mode
The problem is that the MOTU audio interfaces are balanced and what you want is an unbalanced CV signal. Just using TS->TS cables will work but there is concern that this could end up blowing out the interface over time because the interface will be trying to drive current essentially to the ground from the ring connection. So, to be safe, it is recommended that you use TRS->TS cables understanding that you will need to make these.

I have been getting away with using TRS->TRS cables and hoping that the sleeve isn't getting grounded in my modular. I'm considering building some "Volta Pods" by taking some TRS->TRS snakes, cutting them in half and wiring up a box that has 1/4", 3.5mm, and banana jacks for interfacing to anything.

Eric
Bath House
alt-mode wrote:
The problem is that the MOTU audio interfaces are balanced and what you want is an unbalanced CV signal. Just using TS->TS cables will work but there is concern that this could end up blowing out the interface over time because the interface will be trying to drive current essentially to the ground from the ring connection. So, to be safe, it is recommended that you use TRS->TS cables understanding that you will need to make these.

I have been getting away with using TRS->TRS cables and hoping that the sleeve isn't getting grounded in my modular. I'm considering building some "Volta Pods" by taking some TRS->TRS snakes, cutting them in half and wiring up a box that has 1/4", 3.5mm, and banana jacks for interfacing to anything.

Eric


How bizarre! I can't imagine that MOTU would release a mainstream product that requires such a consideration. Is there a place to buy the "right" cables, or is this literally something that could only be hand-made?

I'm actually reconsidering my Volta and 828 purchase because of this, at least until there's a mainstream "off-the-shelf" solution. I'm a musician, not a cable hobbyist, and I'm not going to buy something that will damage the apparatus that I use to record with unless I take up cable-tweaking as a hobby. I can't believe there's no enormous caveat or warning about this on the Volta product page....surely there's one in the manual? This is incredibly disappointing. angry

Unless someone on here starts making and selling the "right" cables...
bar|none
Well it works fine without special cables, so I think you'd be missing out by not going for it. I'm using the wrong cables. Stretta used the wrong cables the whole time he was using it.

I think honestly we are lucky MOTU released this product at all given how insanely small and weird and varied the modular world is. There is a list of audio interfaces and what cables are required in the appendix of the docs, also it is on the website.

Obviously no cable company or breakout box company is going to bother producing anything for such a small market.
goiks
I'm not entirely clear on the cabling issue and would like to understand better -

Would there be any problem with using a 1/4" TRS plug at the MOTU interface end, connected to a standard 1/8' mono (2-conductor) cable, but only connected to the tip and sleeve of the 1/4" plug?

Basically I'd like to chop the end off a standard 1/8" cable (because that's what I have) and put a 1/4" TRS plug on it, leaving the ring unconnected. Seems like it would be OK, since the ring wouldn't be connected to anything at all...but based on posts here I'm a little confused.
goiks
Bath House wrote:

How bizarre! I can't imagine that MOTU would release a mainstream product that requires such a consideration. Is there a place to buy the "right" cables, or is this literally something that could only be hand-made?

I'm actually reconsidering my Volta and 828 purchase because of this, at least until there's a mainstream "off-the-shelf" solution. I'm a musician, not a cable hobbyist, and I'm not going to buy something that will damage the apparatus that I use to record with unless I take up cable-tweaking as a hobby. I can't believe there's no enormous caveat or warning about this on the Volta product page....surely there's one in the manual? This is incredibly disappointing. angry

Unless someone on here starts making and selling the "right" cables...


Mainstream "off the shelf" modulars??! lol

Respectfully, perhaps you're not the in target market for Volta if you don't rightfully claim your inner technician...
bar|none
Yeah, you got it, that's the ideal cable. The ring is connected to nothing.
Bath House
All right, I'll officially put this out there: if anyone is making a batch of 1/4" TRS to 1/4" TS with the ring-to-nowhere cables, I'll pay you for a set of five or so.
goiks
I bet you could get a soldering iron for less! It's really not that hard, and doesn't take that much time. I think you might think it's a bigger deal than it is; a couple of years ago I had never soldered a cable, but it was pretty empowering to do so. When my first DIY module fired right up it was even better. To each their own, however.
Bath House
goiks wrote:
I bet you could get a soldering iron for less! It's really not that hard, and doesn't take that much time. I think you might think it's a bigger deal than it is; a couple of years ago I had never soldered a cable, but it was pretty empowering to do so. When my first DIY module fired right up it was even better. To each their own, however.


Oh, I already solder stuff and build projects and so on. This is a matter of principle for me - I have a real bee in my bonnet about being an active musician vs. being a tinkerer/hobbyist, and I draw the line at building cables. Build an x0xb0x or MFOS WSG, sure.....cut, strip, and solder cables, forget it.
Bath House
doble!
bar|none
Here's an option.

Get one of these.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/closeup/MHB350--Main

Then open it up and clip the ring wires so they float.

So you patch 1/4 TRS from your interface to it. Then 1/4 TS -> 1/8 TS to your modular.
egon77
I sort of agree that it is kinda lame that in order to use Volta with peace of mind you have to either build your own cable or have it made by another individual. The manual could've included some resources for how or where to get your needed cable.

Anywho, I have done a little research and I found a very simple diagram for those who would like it on how to make one of these cables (TRS to TS "floating ring").

here is the link. You'll have to scroll down a bit to find it. It is number 11 on the diagram.

http://diy-central.com/HowToCreateYourOwnDIYCablesXLRTRSStudioCables.a spx

If others out there who know a little more on this subject could check the link and verify that it is correct.

Thanks

BTW- Barnone, I am a big monome user and I just wanted to tell you I have been having loads of fun with this new release of seven up live. It is one of the sickest applications for the monome. Thanks for all the hard work.
bar|none
Hey thanks! What is your monome.org username? Maybe post a video if you get the chance. Cheers.
Bath House
bar|none wrote:
Here's an option.

Get one of these.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/closeup/MHB350--Main

Then open it up and clip the ring wires so they float.

So you patch 1/4 TRS from your interface to it. Then 1/4 TS -> 1/8 TS to your modular.


Ugh. I mean, I guess it's A solution, but the major appeal of Volta for me is the workflow and clutter factor; finally it's (well, it's pitched as) as simple as just running one cable between your interface and synth. An end to all of these extra converter boxes and cables and clutter and other workflow-impeding elements that somehow get more in the way of inspiration and creativity than you'd expect them to. Volta appeared to finally be a "one-click solution" for integrating the modular and DAW worlds, and it just really bums me out to see something like this come along at the last second. I mean if I'm going to need to build my own cables or use a patchbay that I have to do some surgery on or other hacker-level solutions, I feel like we're back to square one. :(
1nput0utput
egon77 wrote:
The manual could've included some resources for how or where to get your needed cable.

The manual does explain how to wire the cables you need according to which interface you're using.

egon77 wrote:
Anywho, I have done a little research and I found a very simple diagram for those who would like it on how to make one of these cables (TRS to TS "floating ring").

here is the link. You'll have to scroll down a bit to find it. It is number 11 on the diagram.

http://diy-central.com/HowToCreateYourOwnDIYCablesXLRTRSStudioCables.a spx

If others out there who know a little more on this subject could check the link and verify that it is correct.

The ring is not floating in #11. You want #9.
egon77
Thanks for the clarification. Number 9 is the correct one. I appreciate that.

as for the manual explaining how to wire the correct cable, I would love if you could point me to the page.

All I see is page 12 on cables which basically refers you to the table in Appendix B on page 47. On page 47 it clarifies which cables should be used for which output for your MOTU interface but goes no deeper than "you should use this cable"

Many of you probably already know exactly what "TRS to TS (ring floating)" means in reference to cables but I didn't. Not that a little research is so hard but myself as an example, I thought it was number #11. If you hadn't of steered me in the right direction I would've soldered it the wrong way. The manual didn't lead me anywhere other then "I better google that"

Although, this forum should be a big help to others.
ripe909
I'm not a volta user, but if you really want to avoid soldering cables you should be able to use an insert cable such as these: insert cable

You can either leave the ring plug disconnected or cut it off.

cheers
ripe
Johnisfaster
I've got an ultralite mk1 on the way.

I'm confused on the matter of the cables like probably a few others around here. why would cutting the ring out of a trs cable be any different than using a trs 1/4'' to 1/8'' adapter with an 1/8'' patch cable going to the modular?

would that not be a good idea?
alt-mode
Johnisfaster wrote:
I'm confused on the matter of the cables like probably a few others around here. why would cutting the ring out of a trs cable be any different than using a trs 1/4'' to 1/8'' adapter with an 1/8'' patch cable going to the modular?


This *might* work depending on the adapter used. You can check this with a meter by checking if there is a connection between the ring of the 1/4" TRS plug and the Ground(Sleeve) of the 1/8" plug. If there is a connection, then the ring has been connected to the sleeve and it is not "floating".

To understand the restriction on TS->TS cables, you need to understand that Volta is using a computer audio interface for a purpose it really wasn't designed to serve. Until someone comes out with a nice DC coupled interface (hint, hint boutique manufacturers), we have to work with the interfaces that happen to pass DC. These interfaces are designed to have balanced outputs that drive a differential signal down two wires. For millivolt audio signals, differential signals are a big win that keep noise down. For driving DC, it isn't such a good thing. So, the interface is driving voltage down two wires, that come out as a tip and sleeve on the jack. If the ring is connected to the ground as it would be with TS->TS cables, the interface is driving current from the sleeve to the ground, effectively shorting the output. Audio interfaces are pretty tough and can be used for audio signals on TS cables so it isn't going to break it right away but there is some concern that over time, the extra current driven to the ground could cause harm to the hardware.

I hope that helps and I hope I haven't screwed up the engineering explanation too much.

Eric
bar|none
ripe909's idea is genius.

I have a bunch of those insert cables around and can use them to patch to my patch bay, then simple use 1/4 TS to 1/8 TS to my modular. Simple and no soldering needed.
Johnisfaster
alt-mode wrote:
Johnisfaster wrote:
I'm confused on the matter of the cables like probably a few others around here. why would cutting the ring out of a trs cable be any different than using a trs 1/4'' to 1/8'' adapter with an 1/8'' patch cable going to the modular?


This *might* work depending on the adapter used. You can check this with a meter by checking if there is a connection between the ring of the 1/4" TRS plug and the Ground(Sleeve) of the 1/8" plug. If there is a connection, then the ring has been connected to the sleeve and it is not "floating".

To understand the restriction on TS->TS cables, you need to understand that Volta is using a computer audio interface for a purpose it really wasn't designed to serve. Until someone comes out with a nice DC coupled interface (hint, hint boutique manufacturers), we have to work with the interfaces that happen to pass DC. These interfaces are designed to have balanced outputs that drive a differential signal down two wires. For millivolt audio signals, differential signals are a big win that keep noise down. For driving DC, it isn't such a good thing. So, the interface is driving voltage down two wires, that come out as a tip and sleeve on the jack. If the ring is connected to the ground as it would be with TS->TS cables, the interface is driving current from the sleeve to the ground, effectively shorting the output. Audio interfaces are pretty tough and can be used for audio signals on TS cables so it isn't going to break it right away but there is some concern that over time, the extra current driven to the ground could cause harm to the hardware.

I hope that helps and I hope I haven't screwed up the engineering explanation too much.

Eric


excellent help, thanks. I think I'll just cross my fingers then smile
my thinking here is that motu was aware of any risk there might be involved and if they haven't made an official statement nor recommended particular cables nor created an interface specifically designed for this type of work then I'm assuming they have determined the risk is minimal enough not to lose sleep over.
bar|none
Yeah, I am currently using TS to TS and no smoke has come out of my interface yet.
1nput0utput
Johnisfaster wrote:
excellent help, thanks. I think I'll just cross my fingers then smile
my thinking here is that motu was aware of any risk there might be involved and if they haven't made an official statement nor recommended particular cables nor created an interface specifically designed for this type of work then I'm assuming they have determined the risk is minimal enough not to lose sleep over.

They explain in the manual which type of cables to use depending upon the interface you have.
Johnisfaster
1nput0utput wrote:
Johnisfaster wrote:
excellent help, thanks. I think I'll just cross my fingers then smile
my thinking here is that motu was aware of any risk there might be involved and if they haven't made an official statement nor recommended particular cables nor created an interface specifically designed for this type of work then I'm assuming they have determined the risk is minimal enough not to lose sleep over.

They explain in the manual which type of cables to use depending upon the interface you have.


I'm not a volta user though, I just plan on sending cv with ableton
Bath House
alt-mode wrote:
Johnisfaster wrote:
I'm confused on the matter of the cables like probably a few others around here. why would cutting the ring out of a trs cable be any different than using a trs 1/4'' to 1/8'' adapter with an 1/8'' patch cable going to the modular?


This *might* work depending on the adapter used. You can check this with a meter by checking if there is a connection between the ring of the 1/4" TRS plug and the Ground(Sleeve) of the 1/8" plug. If there is a connection, then the ring has been connected to the sleeve and it is not "floating".

To understand the restriction on TS->TS cables, you need to understand that Volta is using a computer audio interface for a purpose it really wasn't designed to serve. Until someone comes out with a nice DC coupled interface (hint, hint boutique manufacturers), we have to work with the interfaces that happen to pass DC. These interfaces are designed to have balanced outputs that drive a differential signal down two wires. For millivolt audio signals, differential signals are a big win that keep noise down. For driving DC, it isn't such a good thing. So, the interface is driving voltage down two wires, that come out as a tip and sleeve on the jack. If the ring is connected to the ground as it would be with TS->TS cables, the interface is driving current from the sleeve to the ground, effectively shorting the output. Audio interfaces are pretty tough and can be used for audio signals on TS cables so it isn't going to break it right away but there is some concern that over time, the extra current driven to the ground could cause harm to the hardware.

I hope that helps and I hope I haven't screwed up the engineering explanation too much.

Eric


This is the first time it's made sense to me. Thanks for typing it up.

Now, if you (or someone else) can - what's the harm in running a TRS-TRS from Volta to your modular, with the 1/4" TRS terminating in your modular?
Johnisfaster
I don't suppose the Make Noise Format Jumbler could help this situation at all?
alt-mode
Bath House wrote:

This is the first time it's made sense to me. Thanks for typing it up.

Now, if you (or someone else) can - what's the harm in running a TRS-TRS from Volta to your modular, with the 1/4" TRS terminating in your modular?

I'm glad it was helpful.

If the jacks in your modular leaves the ring floating, then there is no problem. It might be vary depending on what kind of switching jacks are used in your modular. Again you can test this by plugging a TRS cable into your modular and checking to see if there is a connection between the ring and the sleeve of the cable. Try a meter and touch the probes to the ring and sleeve of the plug of the cable plugged into any jack on your modular. If there is 0 or little resistance, the jack is connecting the ring and the sleeve. You might want to try this on both switched and unswitched jacks in your modular and on modules from different manufacturers.

Eric
Bath House
I picked up a few patch cables this weekend that are the 1/4" TRS to two different 1/4" TS - one labeled "ring" and the other labeled "tip" (like the guy linked to above) I figure I can use that for now and just leave the ring one hanging out there in space. If I were to physically cut off the "ring" cable and then solder the cut end to a TRS jack but not connect anything to the jack's ring, that would be the same thing, right? I was thinking I could fairly easily turn these two y-cables into four TRS-TS cables....
alt-mode
Bath House wrote:
If I were to physically cut off the "ring" cable and then solder the cut end to a TRS jack but not connect anything to the jack's ring, that would be the same thing, right? I was thinking I could fairly easily turn these two y-cables into four TRS-TS cables....


Yes, you have the right idea.

Eric
1nput0utput
Bath House wrote:
I picked up a few patch cables this weekend that are the 1/4" TRS to two different 1/4" TS - one labeled "ring" and the other labeled "tip" (like the guy linked to above) I figure I can use that for now and just leave the ring one hanging out there in space. If I were to physically cut off the "ring" cable and then solder the cut end to a TRS jack but not connect anything to the jack's ring, that would be the same thing, right? I was thinking I could fairly easily turn these two y-cables into four TRS-TS cables....

Or you could use the ring portion of that y-cable as an inverse of the tip. A balanced output (to which the TRS end of the y-cable will be connected) produces the original signal on the tip and the same signal phase-inverted on the ring.
Bath House
After all of this hand-wringing on my part, it turns out that DotCom jacks all leave the ring just hanging in the breeze to begin with, so I could just go TRS-to-TRS and not worry about anything. Thumbs-up for easy solutions!
richardm123uk
So I have just come home with Volta and I am 100% confused on this cable issue (to the point were I installed and did not use it for fear of breaking something).

I am using a Ultralite MK3 and Eurorack gear. Can anyone post a pic of what the cable ends should look like or a link to purchase them.

Thanks so much in advance.

Richard
1nput0utput
richardm123uk wrote:
So I have just come home with Volta and I am 100% confused on this cable issue (to the point were I installed and did not use it for fear of breaking something).

I am using a Ultralite MK3 and Eurorack gear. Can anyone post a pic of what the cable ends should look like or a link to purchase them.

Thanks so much in advance.

Richard

The cable that you need depends upon the input to which you're connecting it. If you're connecting to 1/8" or 1/4" TS inputs, then you need a TRS-to-TS cable where the TRS ring is disconnected.
egon77
Yes it is a little confusing. I have the same setup as you and I decided to build my own cables. I have never made cables before but it was a pretty satisfying experience. If you want to make your own go to this link and scroll down to the diagram showing the various types of connections and use number 9 as your guide.

http://diy-central.com/HowToCreateYourOwnDIYCablesXLRTRSStudioCables.a spx

If you don't feel brave enough to give that a go I think Bath House has a good plan. He wrote this:

Quote:
I picked up a few patch cables this weekend that are the 1/4" TRS to two different 1/4" TS - one labeled "ring" and the other labeled "tip" (like the guy linked to above) I figure I can use that for now and just leave the ring one hanging out there in space.


You can pick these cables up at Guitar center and get going right away.[/quote]
bar|none
Ok, I have finally committed to a solution, which as it turns out would be ideal even if it wasn't recommended to float the ring on the TRS.

I have a nice metal pedal box. Bought a bunch of 1/8 jacks (See Components thread https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5218&highlight=)

Also bought a DB-25 connector and a Db-25 to 8x 1/4" TRS snake.

So basically the 8 TRS jacks plugin to the audio outs on my interface and I can also reserve 2 for audio In.

The Db-25 on the snake connects to the pedal box and the db-25 is wired to float the ring and connected to 8 sets of 1/8 jacks mounted on the box. I might mult these as well especially for using them with LFOs and such.

This is killer because it is super clean and I can mount the breakout box right next to my rack and patch Volta as well as my audio ins using standard 1/8 ts patch cords.
richardm123uk
I had problems finding cables when I first got Volta. I had them custom made from a guy in Vancouver (Canada) and they are fantastic.

Website here http://www.theslygoose.com/
jneilnyc
I just finished building a bunch of cables - it's not that hard once you get going.

My setup is a MOTM modular with a MOTU 24i/o handling the Volta chores. I bought 24 short TS patch cables and 48 TRS plugs, and then cut the TS cables into two pieces, and soldered a TRS plug onto the cut ends, giving me enough cables to bring all the ins and outs from the 24i/o to a Samson patchbay sitting above it. From there it will be easy enough to patch everything with standard TS cabling.

In addition to giving me lots of Volta channels to play with, I figure this setup will also make it super easy to send audio from the computer to the modular for processing and back again.
patchdub
i saw this at radioshack the other day and thought it might be a cheap easy option for those who don't want to make their own cables.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062464

my solution was to get a multiple kit from bridechamber and instead of wiring it like a mult i wired it like a patchbay. i run trs cables from my ultra light into the bottom row and take ts out of the jack above.
sine
It seems like that Radio Shack adapter would not allow the ring to float.
doctorvague
patchdub wrote:
i saw this at radioshack the other day and thought it might be a cheap easy option for those who don't want to make their own cables.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062464


NOTE: Those will short the ring and tip together - that's worse still than shorting ring to ground. Those will not work and could damage your interface outputs.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I really don't understand why you non-DIY guys who want an easy cable solution aren't just buying TRS > TRS cables and snipping the ring wire on one end. Dead simple.
patchdub
oops, i guess that won't work! just trying to put ideas out there for folks that don't want to make cables.

i think my little diy volta patch bay is sweet though!
sine
http://66.92.94.107/misc/voltage_worksheet.pdf
From the above pdf, I have a question about the following cable wiring notes:

"cable type A = TRS to TS with ring floating"
"cable type B = XLR to TS (pin 2 = tip, pin 1 sleeve, pin 3 sleeve)"

My question: In the XLR cable, why is it ok for pin 1 and pin 3 to be connected together, but in the TRS the ring should float? I don't know much about electronics, but I thought both types are for balanced outputs with just different connectors. Just curious and would like to understand.
doctorvague
sine wrote:
http://66.92.94.107/misc/voltage_worksheet.pdf
From the above pdf, I have a question about the following cable wiring notes:

"cable type A = TRS to TS with ring floating"
"cable type B = XLR to TS (pin 2 = tip, pin 1 sleeve, pin 3 sleeve)"

My question: In the XLR cable, why is it ok for pin 1 and pin 3 to be connected together, but in the TRS the ring should float? I don't know much about electronics, but I thought both types are for balanced outputs with just different connectors. Just curious and would like to understand.


I agree - this doesn't make sense from what I know. Pin 3 is electrically the same as the ring of a TRS, just a different connector as you said. Ask MOTU I guess, maybe it's a misprint. If you contact them, please post back the explanation.
1nput0utput
I think that some of MOTU's XLR analog outputs are direct-coupled rather than cross-coupled, and that explains why you would want pin 3 shorted to ground. The voltage at pin 2 will be higher when pin 3 is shorted to ground than when it is left unconnected. If you have a device with DC-coupled XLR analog outputs, try it both ways and measure the voltage.
mateo
doctorvague wrote:

Maybe I'm missing something, but I really don't understand why you non-DIY guys who want an easy cable solution aren't just buying TRS > TRS cables and snipping the ring wire on one end. Dead simple.


I'd like to just do this, but I haven't actually been able to find any 1/4" to 1/8" stereo cables that don't have molded connectors. If anybody has found any, let me know where!
stevenclements
richardm123uk wrote:
I had problems finding cables when I first got Volta. I had them custom made from a guy in Vancouver (Canada) and they are fantastic.

Website here http://www.theslygoose.com/


He actually lists them now... $12.50 each 1/4" TRS to 1/8" TS
ruke
Hi

I guess this should go in this thread...

I have MOTU 24i/o and want to run volta and or silent way around my studio.

For my workflow it's best for me to use a TRS - TRS patchbay. I have two questions if anyone would be kind enough to help.

1. Can I mod some channels of my DBX PB-48 patchbay rather than modding cables? Please see the pic. I've not soldered much but am willing to have a crack at it !

2. If the above is possible - Would the following degrade CV signal strength prohibitively:

MOTU => TRS - TRS [10ft max] => PATCHBAY (DeNormalled) with above
modification if possible => TS - TS [20ft max]

Many thanks !

Ruke

doctorvague
ruke wrote:
Hi

I guess this should go in this thread...

I have MOTU 24i/o and want to run volta and or silent way around my studio.

For my workflow it's best for me to use a TRS - TRS patchbay. I have two questions if anyone would be kind enough to help.

1. Can I mod some channels of my DBX PB-48 patchbay rather than modding cables? Please see the pic. I've not soldered much but am willing to have a crack at it !

2. If the above is possible - Would the following degrade CV signal strength prohibitively:

MOTU => TRS - TRS [10ft max] => PATCHBAY (DeNormalled) with above
modification if possible => TS - TS [20ft max]

Many thanks !

Ruke


Rather than messing with your patch bay (which could work), if it were me I'd simply do this with your TRS-TRS cables:

doctorvague wrote:
Maybe I'm missing something, but I really don't understand why you non-DIY guys who want an easy cable solution aren't just buying TRS > TRS cables and snipping the ring wire on one end. Dead simple.


With just a bit of trouble you can always resolder the end you snipped someday if you ever want to have them back stock.
ruke
Hi there

Thanks for your response...

Without going into a long boring explanation with my set up it'd make a lot more sense for me to alter the patchbay rather than the cables....

That's kind of why I was asking the below - to see if the transition from balanced to non balanced over 30 ft would degrade the CV signal...

Quote:
2. If the above is possible - Would the following degrade CV signal strength prohibitively:

MOTU => TRS - TRS [10ft max] => PATCHBAY (DeNormalled) with above
modification if possible => TS - TS [20ft max]


If anyone has an idea of how to float the ring on the patchbay that'd be great - I'm guessing that I could scrape off the tracks to the middle solder points - is this possible? If so would I do it on just one side or the in and out? (The de-normalling means it'll go straight through from front to back)

Thanks !

Ruke
baltimoroder
Well, you wouldn't "scrape" per se but cut using an exacto or jeweler's knife. This site might be helpful.

Also 24io for CV...
doctorvague
baltimoroder wrote:
Well, you wouldn't "scrape" per se but cut using an exacto or jeweler's knife. This site might be helpful.

Also 24io for CV...


Plug a TRS cable in and check continuity with a meter between the exposed ring on the cable and whatever trace on the DBX card that corresponds i.e. shows as a short or zero ohms. Even a simple continuity tester will work. Then cut that trace. I always check with a magnifier to make sure I've completely cut through the trace.

I would only do one then hook up cables exactly as you plan to and make sure everything checks out with a meter. Meter the Ring and sleeve of your source cable (the TRS end you will plug into the 24io) -it should NOT show a short if the ring is floating. Then meter the tip of the 24io TRS plug with the tip of your modular TS plug with both plugged into the card as intended - that should read as shorted. Ditto for both sleeves, they should read as shorted. If all that checks out you're good to go.

You shouldn't have a problem with cable length. Keep in mind you'll be calibrating anyway in the case of 1V/oct osc pitch which is the most critical and whatever tiny voltage drop is present the Volta calibration will 'take into account' so to speak. IOW the cable becomes part of the whole system that Volta is calibrating.
os
doctorvague wrote:
You shouldn't have a problem with cable length. Keep in mind you'll be calibrating anyway in the case of 1V/oct osc pitch which is the most critical and whatever tiny voltage drop is present the Volta calibration will 'take into account' so to speak. IOW the cable becomes part of the whole system that Volta is calibrating.

That's true, but there's also the issue of noise when going to long unbalanced cables. Even then, that's unlikely to be a problem for CVs.

NB in this situation, the TRS-TRS cable run also counts as unbalanced, since it's not terminating in a balanced input, just joining up to the TS-TS section.
ruke
Thanks for the responses guys...

I ended up making up a box with a db25 going to 8 TS jack sockets, multed to 8 1/8" jack sockets.

Will I loose significant voltage if I use the mults?

Worked out well in the end and I managed to avoid carving up the patchbays !

Cheers

Ruke
minja
Hello,

Would this do the trick for me. I dislike soldering so off the shelf would be better.

http://www.thomann.de/ie/pro_snake_tpy_2003_kbb.htm

or this but snip the ring on one side

http://www.thomann.de/ie/pro_snake_20023_30.htm

I think this is okay but I am not sure.

Ken
Bluebox
Just poking my head in here, as I've mentioned it over in the Expert Sleepers subforum... I hand-build high-quality synth patch cables, including 1/8"-to-1/8", 1/4"-to-1/8", and TRS-to-1/8" with the ring floated specifically for use with products like Volta. Feel free to PM me for details if you're interested smile

Cheers,
-ian
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