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Self generating patches....tips and ideas ?
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Modular Synth General Discussion Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 26, 27, 28, 29  Next [all]
Author Self generating patches....tips and ideas ?
colb
cptnal wrote:

Me like. With this kind of stuff the trick is to get the balance right between chaos to make it interesting, and structure to give the brain something to latch on to. Reckon you got the balance just right here. thumbs up


Thanks. Although I'm not sure how much control I had over it. Sometimes it's more like I'm wrestling with it until I'm not obviously losing any more, and stopping there - however long that takes.
pugix
Here's another of my 'automatic music' patches. With details of the patch.

http://pugix.com/synth/magic-wand/
cptnal
pugix wrote:
Here's another of my 'automatic music' patches. With details of the patch.

http://pugix.com/synth/magic-wand/


applause

Right, how many comparators can I rustle up...? hihi
gis_sweden
pugix wrote:
Here's another of my 'automatic music' patches. With details of the patch.

http://pugix.com/synth/magic-wand/


applause Great magic.
Noodle Twister
Can I ask if anyone is using shift registers for generative ?

Apart from say a wavetable OSC it's been the only other module that struck me as a 'Definitely useful for generative music' module.

Bear in mind I know little about generative patches to be honest

help
cptnal
Noodle Twister wrote:
Can I ask if anyone is using shift registers for generative ?

Apart from say a wavetable OSC it's been the only other module that struck me as a 'Definitely useful for generative music' module.

Bear in mind I know little about generative patches to be honest

help


I tend not to, but that's a personal thing. A shift register is the lovechild of sample and hold and sequential switch, and when I'm thinking generative I'm thinking in terms of individual functions, so it's sample and holds and sequential switches, rather than both combined.

That said, they're a very useful way of sharing melodic information (or any kind of information for that matter) between voices. Remembering you're not obliged to use the same gates it gives out to envelope your voices (if it gives out gates).

Of course, now you've got me thinking how I might use one... hmmm.....
Noodle Twister
It's an NLC Squid axon (four stage analog shift register), so it has four inputs and outputs plus linear and non-linear feedback.

It works well with normal oscillators and with a slow clock going in it and some attenuation it doesn't have to be the strange wild beast that it first appears to be.

Quote:
Remembering you're not obliged to use the same gates it gives out to envelope your voices (if it gives out gates).


Having read this I tested it with the trigger input of a sampler and it was triggering occassionally but unpredictably.

A better result was had by taking the Axon output to the CV of the sampler and a one shot gate from a sequencer. The gate triggering the sample and surprisingly the rest of the sample following a rising pattern of notes.

Is this what is meant by 'It will happily run at audio rates as well' ?

Love the magic wand patch @pugix
authorless
Noodle Twister wrote:
Can I ask if anyone is using shift registers for generative ?

Apart from say a wavetable OSC it's been the only other module that struck me as a 'Definitely useful for generative music' module.

Bear in mind I know little about generative patches to be honest

help


I am thinking you mean analog shift registers? I have the Plan B and the Elby analog shift registers in my system. They are really handy. A thing I commonly use them for is cascading a random voltage to multiple sources. So I can feed the output of a Doepfer A-149-1 Quantized/Stored Random Voltages into the Plan B ASR and get 4 versions of whichever output I am using. You can also use them to derive a voltage proportional to the amount of change in a stepped random voltage.

Why I have both: the Plan B samples better, meaning that what goes in is what comes out, but it doesn't hold very well, it will start to droop after about 20 seconds. The Elby doesn't sample very accurately, there are slight differences between what goes in and what comes out, but it will hold for a long time. This is an issue with all sample and holds, there is a compromise between sample accuracy and hold time.
Noodle Twister
authorless wrote:


I am thinking you mean analog shift registers? I have the Plan B and the Elby analog shift registers in my system. They are really handy. A thing I commonly use them for is cascading a random voltage to multiple sources. So I can feed the output of a Doepfer A-149-1 Quantized/Stored Random Voltages into the Plan B ASR and get 4 versions of whichever output I am using. You can also use them to derive a voltage proportional to the amount of change in a stepped random voltage.

Why I have both: the Plan B samples better, meaning that what goes in is what comes out, but it doesn't hold very well, it will start to droop after about 20 seconds. The Elby doesn't sample very accurately, there are slight differences between what goes in and what comes out, but it will hold for a long time. This is an issue with all sample and holds, there is a compromise between sample accuracy and hold time.


Yes analog shift register. Quantized random to multiple sources sounds interesting, I can give that a try. As I haven't had the module long I have just been stuffing the inputs with LFO's , a sloth, random and smooth random with a fast clock then trying to calm it down from there.

Your approach sounds like a more sensible way to do it. The description on modular grid for the Plan B ASR was also helpful in understanding whats going on.

The original post mentions ASR and it was today I worked out what that means from your post d'oh!
Thanks though, very interesting.
gis_sweden
Noodle Twister wrote:
It's an NLC Squid axon (four stage analog shift register), so it has four inputs and outputs plus linear and non-linear feedback.

It's an excellent module for generative - I hope.
I have one but it's still in parts.

EDIT: Noodle Twister and a new module from NLC inspired me to an simple patch. NLC Jerk Off without any input is the engine for this simple patch. In my little world I see NLCs chaos modules as a helping hand. I find the though of chaos very pleasing... I have used 2 OSC (1 OSC and 1 self oscillating VCF), 1 VCF, spring reverb, delay pedal, VCA, mixer, out module and Jerk Off. Not very melodic but... bubbly meh
https://freesound.org/people/gis_sweden/sounds/484035/
oberdada
Noodle Twister wrote:
It's an NLC Squid axon (four stage analog shift register), so it has four inputs and outputs plus linear and non-linear feedback.


I have one as well in a single row case which is very much set up for generative patches. The core of those patches is typically rampage, the sampling modulator or the squid, an oscillator and a vca as output module. You don't need more than that for entertainment.

Noodle Twister wrote:

Is this what is meant by 'It will happily run at audio rates as well' ?


The clock input may take an audio rate signal, which can be used for bit crush and aliasing types of effetcts.
Noodle Twister
oberdada wrote:

The clock input may take an audio rate signal, which can be used for bit crush and aliasing types of effects.


Can I ask, do you know at what Hz does the signal become audio rate ?
cptnal
Noodle Twister wrote:
oberdada wrote:

The clock input may take an audio rate signal, which can be used for bit crush and aliasing types of effects.


Can I ask, do you know at what Hz does the signal become audio rate ?


"Audio rate" is literally that - when you start to hear it as a tone. Generally around 20Hz, but varies from person to person. thumbs up
Noodle Twister
cptnal wrote:
Noodle Twister wrote:
oberdada wrote:

The clock input may take an audio rate signal, which can be used for bit crush and aliasing types of effects.


Can I ask, do you know at what Hz does the signal become audio rate ?


"Audio rate" is literally that - when you start to hear it as a tone. Generally around 20Hz, but varies from person to person. thumbs up


Ah ok. Thanks cptnal just thought to ask as the clock I'm using goes from 0.13 to 500Hz, which is more than enough. The tone you mention is definitely noticeable when the clock is controlling a VCA via CV.
DrReverendSeance
Quote:
You can also use them to derive a voltage proportional to the amount of change in a stepped random voltage.


authorless, how do you do this with an ASR?
cptnal
You could get a weighted average by sending the outputs to a mixer... hmmm.....

(Not sure if that's what authorless meant, but if not it's another idea.)
gis_sweden
[soundcloud url="https://api.soundcloud.com/playlists/868348409" params="auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_use r=true&show_reposts=false&visual=true" width="100%" height="450" iframe="true" /]

A modular diptych. Patch made with my new downsized modular. Feels great. More like an instrument. More creative. For me.
colb
gis_sweden wrote:


A modular diptych. Patch made with my new downsized modular. Feels great. More like an instrument. More creative. For me.


This is great. Not long enough though smile
JakoGreyshire
Maybe not 100% Self Generating patch, but I thought you all might like the style..
It has a lot of modulators being modulated by modulated modulators.... eek!
So, it had elements in it that were always changing....
I ended up recording an hours worth.. It did lots of different things in the same way..

Here is a short snippet:


cptnal
JakoGreyshire wrote:
Maybe not 100% Self Generating patch, but I thought you all might like the style..
It has a lot of modulators being modulated by modulated modulators.... eek!
So, it had elements in it that were always changing....
I ended up recording an hours worth.. It did lots of different things in the same way..

Here is a short snippet:




Well I liked it. Chaotic, but not random. thumbs up
JakoGreyshire
Thanks Captain Al! You are right, "chaotic but not random"....
I appreciate the clarity there as I hadn't really thought about it...
I really like the popping and clicking sounds. I hear Crows do that sometimes...
gis_sweden
[s]https://soundcloud.com/sliversounds/from-altair-iv-with-love[/s]
Old school Electronic sounding Krell…

[s][/s] doesn't wotk with chrome?! hmmm.....
Posting this in/with Explorer.
Noodle Twister
Thanks for sharing JakoGreyshire, cptnal and gis.

It's inspiring me to finally get the computer hooked up to the audio interface and get recording.

Xeno Aviary reminded me of 'Lifeforms' by future sound of London.
cptnal
Here's a patch inspired by (for which read "bears no relation to") Rob Hordijk's flowchart for the Rungler:

https://thehordijkmodular.blogspot.com/search/label/Rungler

(I've been fascinated by his stuff for the last few days - well worth checking out.)

The idea I got from it was two VCOs into a shift register. The sub from the VCO you're monitoring clocks the SR via a probability skipper, and the other provides the CV. I sent the four outputs of the SR to a matrix mixer and distributed the outputs around the patch, but the most important ones to pay attention to are the frequencies of the oscillators.

You may notice the pattern - low notes are dull and play slowly, high notes are faster and brighter. But apart from that the flow is chaotic. It's very much hunt-the-sweet-spot.

I cheated somewhat in using PEG for envelopes because it adjusts its period to a clock without changing its shape.

[s]http://soundcloud.com/cptnal/not-rungler[/s]
colb
cptnal wrote:
It's very much hunt-the-sweet-spot.


generative patches in a nutshell!
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