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synchronizing events to a clock. Any modules for this?
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Author synchronizing events to a clock. Any modules for this?
Mend
Hi all.

I've got the ER-102 a few days now and I'm slowly starting to see the potential of this wonderful controller. One thing that bugs me is that whenever I play around sending gates into a group the intended effect (for instance: selected notes should play twice as fast when the gate is high) starts right away, sometimes causing the beat to skip. No problem when I'm having fun in the studio. But I'd really like to use this thing live. And I'd like to make sure activating a group won't throw my beats or tunes out of whack.

Now I know that I could delay the sudden start by syncing it through something like Leipzig West's Schleußig. Just wondering if there are other modules out there, perhaps a bit more basic and thus cheaper, that could give me that exact same result. Last thing I need is extra stress when I'm playing live Dead Banana
kpreid
Not familiar with the ER-102, but in general, if you have something controlled by CV (whether continuous or gate/logic) and you want it to change only in sync with a clock (or only at the start of a note) you want a sample-and-hold module.

Patch the clock into the S&H's “trigger”/“clock” input (naming might vary), and patch the signal you want to control the changes of through the signal in/out.
Mend
Never even thought of using S&H for this seriously, i just don't get it So basically it'll take an incoming gate or trigger, hold it, and let's it go - onwards to the ER-102 in my case - and that's it? All I need.
hinterlands303
You could play around with different logic types to get the effect you want. An AND gate might work depending on what kind of clock you're using (if you don't have an AND gate you can use a DC coupled VCA). A flip flop could work depending on what exactly you are trying to do.
kpreid
No, a S&H won't detect a trigger and save it for later, unless it happens to coincide with the clock input. S&H will “just work” for any CV which is controlling a parameter (whether continuous like pitch, or discrete like a gate) and you want the parameter to only change in time with the clock.

But if you do want to delay a trigger signal (which will likely go high and low entirely within one clock pulse) you can patch that with a flip-flop or sequential switch (the trigger advances/toggles the switch into the state which lets the next clock pulse through and also resets itself), but not with a S&H.
authorless
I think you are asking about synchronizing triggers or gates to a clock. Is that correct? If you are, a clocked D flip flop will do that. Intellijel Flop Flop or Plog. The JK flip flop on the Flip Flop can be patched as clocked D flip flop if you have a logic inverter, so you could have two channels of clocked D flip flop. I don't know if anyone else makes a flip flop module.
R.U.Nuts
kpreid wrote:
No, a S&H won't detect a trigger and save it for later, unless it happens to coincide with the clock input. S&H will “just work” for any CV which is controlling a parameter (whether continuous like pitch, or discrete like a gate) and you want the parameter to only change in time with the clock.

.


I'd say "yes and no". Of course a S&H will also sample a trigger, gate or clock signal on it's sample input. But that g/t/c signal needs to be high the moment the S&H receives a clock signal at it's clock input. So a g/t/c that goes high before the clock goes high and stays high while the clock occurs will result in a gate signal that is in sync with the clock. But if your g/t/c goes high just in between two clock pulses, the S&H won't sample it. So a S&H will work in a way but you have to make sure that your input g/t/c is high long enough to still be high when the clock at the clock input goes high.
sir stony
Normally I'd say, train your finger timing more, and get a module that will make it easier, like the horstronic arcade button or similar which you can whack "on the beat". But at higher speeds, it's still a matter of needing some sync help like you are looking for. And if there is no option for the ER to manage that internally (which would of course be the most desirable way) , the Schleußig is indeed the only single module that I can think of to offer that. Every other solution I can think of will need more than one module and possibly an extra sequencer track...
Navs
A S&H doesn't care whether it's sampling a gate or a CV; it'll work as a synchroniser:

http://navsmodularlab.blogspot.com/2010/04/patch-tip-7-synced-transpos ition.html

But maybe that's not the OP's issue. I don't understand what you mean by skipping a beat if the same device is generating the clock as well as the double time command. Can you explain?
Mend
Navs wrote:
A S&H doesn't care whether it's sampling a gate or a CV; it'll work as a synchroniser:


I don't understand what you mean by skipping a beat if the same device is generating the clock as well as the double time command. Can you explain?
The ER-102 doesn't wait for a clock pulse to start whatever you wanted to start in the group section of the module. It just starts whenever you tell it to start. I don't think it's possible to have this done on the next pulse. So I guess I'll have to buy a sample and hold or something similar.

Have to go now but I'll read the rest later. Thanks for the input everyone. Very helpful.
Mend
authorless wrote:
I think you are asking about synchronizing triggers or gates to a clock. Is that correct? If you are, a clocked D flip flop will do that. Intellijel Flop Flop or Plog. The JK flip flop on the Flip Flop can be patched as clocked D flip flop if you have a logic inverter, so you could have two channels of clocked D flip flop. I don't know if anyone else makes a flip flop module.
Having a hard time understanding the manual and couldn't find a video demonstrating the D flip flop. Can I set the length of the 'hold'? What I mean is.. Can I set how long it takes (1 bar, 4 bars) before the gate passes through?
void23
Why not just use an extra / unused CV channel from the ER-101?
Paranormal Patroler
I would say that an AND logic module is your simplest solution, which you can replicate (somewhat) using a VCA. Have the VCA open/close via the clock and pass your gate through its input - that way you can only use the gate when the clock is active. That definitely limits the size of your gate, but it seems that if the only thing you want to do is start/stop your sequencer, it will do perfectly.

There is a dedicated Barton module for all of this and more, which is an undiscovered jewel. It's the BMC28 Live Rhythm Quantizer BMC28 Live Rhythm Quantizer.

http://bartonmusicalcircuits.com/lrq/

You set up a window around your clock events, and you decide what happens to pulses that fall outside that window, and inside the window before or after your clock pulses. You can have things not fire if outside the window, and have them delayed in order to fire at the same time as the clock. It's made for your exact needs.
zerodivide
thanks for this post! I had an almost identical question but in regards to syncing an EOC gate out to your clock, so that the next event follows your tempo. following
Mend
void23 wrote:
Why not just use an extra / unused CV channel from the ER-101?
Could you give me an example of how that works? I would need to set up a sequence for that. And sure, that sequence will always be in sync, but I'd like to have a more hands on approach so I can determine when I want to switch things up in the moment instead of having it pre-programmed. Or maybe I misunderstood smile
Mend
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
I would say that an AND logic module is your simplest solution, which you can replicate (somewhat) using a VCA. Have the VCA open/close via the clock and pass your gate through its input - that way you can only use the gate when the clock is active. That definitely limits the size of your gate, but it seems that if the only thing you want to do is start/stop your sequencer, it will do perfectly.

There is a dedicated Barton module for all of this and more, which is an undiscovered jewel. It's the BMC28 Live Rhythm Quantizer BMC28 Live Rhythm Quantizer.

http://bartonmusicalcircuits.com/lrq/

You set up a window around your clock events, and you decide what happens to pulses that fall outside that window, and inside the window before or after your clock pulses. You can have things not fire if outside the window, and have them delayed in order to fire at the same time as the clock. It's made for your exact needs.
This is awesome! Can't seem to find a retailer in Europe that has it i store, sadly. I'll keep looking and see if it's in store somewhere.
kay_k
I've basically build a 2HP 6 channel Schleußig for Logic signals (EC Mute).. for VPME euclidian circles. If you connect it to just jacks (DIY) instead of connecting the EC you'd have your solution. (what makes the Schleußig's price besides the buttons is the fact that the signal path is analog - lots of opamps etc.)
Only problem is I couldn't manage to release it just yet. I am busy with production of a bunch of other modules.

Another solution that I also haven't released yet could be the R.Koch (still writing source code for that one)
That thing will be a 4 channel "gate manipulator" which also inherits the muting from Schleußig.

Both modules will take more time.
AND PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stop writing me e-mails about release dates.
I am doing all this after my real job and when the kid is in bed.
Mend
kay_k wrote:
I've basically build a 2HP 6 channel Schleußig for Logic signals (EC Mute).. for VPME euclidian circles. If you connect it to just jacks (DIY) instead of connecting the EC you'd have your solution. (what makes the Schleußig's price besides the buttons is the fact that the signal path is analog - lots of opamps etc.)
Only problem is I couldn't manage to release it just yet. I am busy with production of a bunch of other modules.

Another solution that I also haven't released yet could be the R.Koch (still writing source code for that one)
That thing will be a 4 channel "gate manipulator" which also inherits the muting from Schleußig.

Both modules will take more time.
AND PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stop writing me e-mails about release dates.
I am doing all this after my real job and when the kid is in bed.
Sounds really promising smile Looking forward to it. Hope that wasn't my message that tipped the scale.
kay_k
Nah, but I keep announcing things that sometimes take like 2-3 yrs longer (WK4)
Paranormal Patroler
Mend wrote:
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
I would say that an AND logic module is your simplest solution, which you can replicate (somewhat) using a VCA. Have the VCA open/close via the clock and pass your gate through its input - that way you can only use the gate when the clock is active. That definitely limits the size of your gate, but it seems that if the only thing you want to do is start/stop your sequencer, it will do perfectly.

There is a dedicated Barton module for all of this and more, which is an undiscovered jewel. It's the BMC28 Live Rhythm Quantizer BMC28 Live Rhythm Quantizer.

http://bartonmusicalcircuits.com/lrq/

You set up a window around your clock events, and you decide what happens to pulses that fall outside that window, and inside the window before or after your clock pulses. You can have things not fire if outside the window, and have them delayed in order to fire at the same time as the clock. It's made for your exact needs.
This is awesome! Can't seem to find a retailer in Europe that has it i store, sadly. I'll keep looking and see if it's in store somewhere.


As most Barton modules, it's a DIY only. You can get the parts (as I did) and have someone else make it for you. There are a few builders out there and in this here forum that do commissions.
Mend
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
Mend wrote:
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
I would say that an AND logic module is your simplest solution, which you can replicate (somewhat) using a VCA. Have the VCA open/close via the clock and pass your gate through its input - that way you can only use the gate when the clock is active. That definitely limits the size of your gate, but it seems that if the only thing you want to do is start/stop your sequencer, it will do perfectly.

There is a dedicated Barton module for all of this and more, which is an undiscovered jewel. It's the BMC28 Live Rhythm Quantizer BMC28 Live Rhythm Quantizer.

http://bartonmusicalcircuits.com/lrq/

You set up a window around your clock events, and you decide what happens to pulses that fall outside that window, and inside the window before or after your clock pulses. You can have things not fire if outside the window, and have them delayed in order to fire at the same time as the clock. It's made for your exact needs.
This is awesome! Can't seem to find a retailer in Europe that has it i store, sadly. I'll keep looking and see if it's in store somewhere.


As most Barton modules, it's a DIY only. You can get the parts (as I did) and have someone else make it for you. There are a few builders out there and in this here forum that do commissions.
I've soldered a bit before. I've built an SSSR VC divider and it went okay. Is it considered an easy DIY?
Paranormal Patroler
I can't comment on that other than I doubt Barton modules are difficult DIY builds. You can check the PCB online I think.
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