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Reaktor 6.3 released with 'Patch and Play'
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Author Reaktor 6.3 released with 'Patch and Play'
colb
Today Native Instruments released an update for Reaktor with it's new Patch and Play front panel patching system and a new 'Racks' layer.

Racks is designed to take away some of the hassle of using Reaktor in a DAW context by storing the setup in the host chunk - so that it much easier to maintain it in a larger project - when you come back months later, it will just work rather than throwing up error messages due to paths being changed in the intervening time. Or at least that's the idea.

Patch and Play is a front panel patching system:


This looks great, and works well in the new Racks environment. However, Patch and Play patches can't be saved as presets or snapshots in the main 'ensemble' layer - so only of very limited use with existing Reaktor content. Still, hopefully this will be developed further so it is more useful throughout the application.

Mice to have an update though smile
hermbot
I never found the rear patching to be too offputting in Reaktor. I look forward to when this is fleshed out, though. It's my favorite software modular platform.

The great takeaway is that they are still actively developing for the platform!
rayultine
Fuck Native Instruments.
More fine print: currently, only NI or licensed 3rd party Blocks can be put into the Racks environment.

Ironically, the day I decide I will probably never gel with the Maschine and put it up for sale, NI goes microtransactional with Reaktor.
rayultine
Ok, I take it back a bit. It's fun to play with, and there are already free Blocks being released.
colb
rayultine wrote:
Ok, I take it back a bit. It's fun to play with, and there are already free Blocks being released.


Yes there are a few. However, for the majority of builders, there is as yet no word on how to register their Blocks for Rack use, or if that will be possible without registration fees.

So licenced users cannot create their own content for Racks. And outside of racks, patch and play is little more than a tech demo - it's pretty useless due to the inability to save snapshots or presets that include the patch cables.
jue
Think its only a new sale form for NI, if you have any questions about this, their only reaction is sending you a NDA you have to sign, before they even talk to you!

They will never see any more money from me!

For me NI could rest in peace!
The Space Disco
Sad to see people hate on this topic, I had fun with it all day!

Thank YOU team Reaktor! You’re the beast!!!
Moon Indigo
The Space Disco wrote:
Sad to see people hate on this topic, I had fun with it all day!

Thank YOU team Reaktor! You’re the beast!!!


Agree. So much negativity about what is obviously a great development. This will get rolled out across the board in due course.
jue
If you want to see a real great development have a look to the free VCV Rack hihi
letitbleep
seems wild to add yet another file/structure type to the Reaktor ecosystem which is already kind of a mess. it'll never happen, but i wish NI would start from scratch with an all-powerful modular environment with the core/primary/macro/block/rack mess distilled into something more sensible. at some point you just have to let the legacy stuff die/go unsupported seriously, i just don't get it
colb
The Space Disco wrote:
Sad to see people hate on this topic, I had fun with it all day!

Thank YOU team Reaktor! You’re the beast!!!


Do you build your own stuff in Reaktor?
Do you use any of the free stuff from the User Library?
Assuming you like racks and end up focusing on a Racks based workflow are you happy for Reaktor to change from an open environment to a closed paywall 'ecosystem'?

What about when things don't work?
e.g. the original Note In block had a nasty bug, so was basically unusable for playing with a MIDI keyboard (dropping notes). It wasn't easily fixable, so I built an alternative and uploaded that to the user library - lots of folk were then able to use Blocks with their MIDI keys again... Something similar happens with Racks and it's tough shit - NI usually take months or years to fix bugs! and regular users are not allowed to build Rack Blocks.

Reaktor has been around for almost two decades, and the whole point has always been that you can make whatever you need yourself - an open audio development environment - All of a sudden that's not true any more! Not really surprising that a lot of people are unhappy about that. we've been locked out of all the stuff from this new release - apart from a completely unusable byproduct of the patching system.
rayultine
colb wrote:
the whole point has always been that you can make whatever you need yourself


For 23 years until last week. As fun as the new Blocks/Racks are, they've ripped off some of VCVrack's best ideas, half-baked them, put them behind a paywall. That's insane to me and I didn't think NI could stoop any lower. I'll try to use what's free as a tool, but they probably aren't getting any more of my dollars.
The Space Disco
colb wrote:
The Space Disco wrote:
Sad to see people hate on this topic, I had fun with it all day!

Thank YOU team Reaktor! You’re the beast!!!


Do you build your own stuff in Reaktor?
Do you use any of the free stuff from the User Library?
Assuming you like racks and end up focusing on a Racks based workflow are you happy for Reaktor to change from an open environment to a closed paywall 'ecosystem'?

What about when things don't work?
e.g. the original Note In block had a nasty bug, so was basically unusable for playing with a MIDI keyboard (dropping notes). It wasn't easily fixable, so I built an alternative and uploaded that to the user library - lots of folk were then able to use Blocks with their MIDI keys again... Something similar happens with Racks and it's tough shit - NI usually take months or years to fix bugs! and regular users are not allowed to build Rack Blocks.

Reaktor has been around for almost two decades, and the whole point has always been that you can make whatever you need yourself - an open audio development environment - All of a sudden that's not true any more! Not really surprising that a lot of people are unhappy about that. we've been locked out of all the stuff from this new release - apart from a completely unusable byproduct of the patching system.


I hear you, guess I’m not aware of what the new changes really means. I use a lot in the lib , euro reakt and cloudlab. I build some but not so good at it.
jue
rayultine
For 23 years until last week. As fun as the new Blocks/Racks are, they've ripped off some of VCVrack's best ideas, half-baked them, put them behind a paywall. That's insane to me and I didn't think NI could stoop any lower. I'll try to use what's free as a tool, but they probably aren't getting any more of my dollars.

Second this! Beside of the dollars, but also no Euro any more!

The worst thing for me is that the people pray the greatness of NI without seeing that the builders make this software real great without seeing any cent from them.

Now all the builders get shown the famous finger.
The Space Disco
I wish some Reaktor workers NI Staff would come hear and explain the thoughts of the new situation, it can be all driven by money can it!?
jue
At the Ni forum its the same situation, wrote the same there and no reaction about this as always when something went wrong.

Even the great names of the builders did not get any answers, its the normal behavior of german companies or politics:

duck and cover
Dilibob
jue wrote:
rayultine
For 23 years until last week. As fun as the new Blocks/Racks are, they've ripped off some of VCVrack's best ideas, half-baked them, put them behind a paywall. That's insane to me and I didn't think NI could stoop any lower. I'll try to use what's free as a tool, but they probably aren't getting any more of my dollars.

Second this! Beside of the dollars, but also no Euro any more!

The worst thing for me is that the people pray the greatness of NI without seeing that the builders make this software real great without seeing any cent from them.

Now all the builders get shown the famous finger.
+1. Also moving to vcvrack has been pretty deadly for me, since I have massive amounts of my time/blocks/samples/etc in the NI ecosystem. the vcvrack ecosystem is getting there, but it's all at the late beta stage, nothing like NI where I can easily deal with production deadlines.
listentoaheartbeat
The Space Disco wrote:
I wish some Reaktor workers NI Staff would come hear and explain the thoughts of the new situation, it can be all driven by money can it!?


I won't be able to dive deep into a discussion here as contrary to a post above I have been very active over in the REAKTOR forum since Friday. Also given my role as a Technical Writer and Sound Designer in this project I cannot answer all questions but have already brought up several topics for discussion with the team.

That being said, while I understand some of the confusion around the release (which is only available to existing users at this point, the official announcement being due tomorrow), I want to clear up a misunderstanding here. No functionality is taken away from the use case of using Blocks (or any Instrument for that matter) in an Ensemble.

Quite the opposite: You can use the new panel ports in Ensembles, all Blocks already have them added in B View, and there is a new option to switch between A and B Views for all Instruments in an Ensemble. This allows you to show or hide the wiring similar to the View Modes in a Rack.

Racks have the exclusive feature of saving all aspects of the patch including connections in the host project. This is possible because the Rack only references the Blocks, and the Blocks are in a defined state in a defined location, even if you reinstall your system or open it on another computer.
The Space Disco
Quote:
Quite the opposite: You can use the new panel ports in Ensembles, all Blocks already have them added in B View, and there is a new option to switch between A and B Views for all Instruments in an Ensemble. This allows you to show or hide the wiring similar to the View Modes in a Rack.


Sounds promising , I like the new update a lot!
colb
listentoaheartbeat wrote:

Quite the opposite: You can use the new panel ports in Ensembles


You can use the ports and the patch cables in ensembles, but you can't save the connections in snapshots or presets, and they won't save with the DAW host like they do with Racks.

That means the only way to save patches is by saving multiple instances of the ensemble - which could be 50mb or more per instance.... starts to add up quickly. Also means no in app browser for 'sounds', and no way to load up sounds into newer versions of an ensemble - gotta re-patch from scratch.

So if you do want to use the patch and play system with ensembles, you lose one of the big advantages software has over hardware! (unless you are happy with the massive compromise of every patch being saved as a different ensemble)
listentoaheartbeat
Yes, I pointed this out in my post. Let me add that the open nature of the Ensemble does not lean itself to this kind of saving paradigm, which heavily relies on the more closed nature of the Rack format.
colb
listentoaheartbeat wrote:
Yes, I pointed this out in my post. Let me add that the open nature of the Ensemble does not lean itself to this kind of saving paradigm, which heavily relies on the more closed nature of the Rack format.


However, there is no reason why there couldn't be a format that allows the saving of front panel patch connections for ensembles. It could be an addition to the snapshot format that looks only at those inputs and outputs that are tagged 'visible'. Or it could be some additional new format - after all, the NI approach to things like application layers and file formats seems to be 'the more the merrier' - purely to simplify things for beginners or course wink
jue
Cola wrote:
However, there is no reason why there couldn't be a format that allows the saving of front panel patch connections for ensembles.

Sorry but there is a big reason, NI wants money from the builders like they take from the Kontakt developers.

With several hundred of blocks I was building the last years, so I even do not want to know how many money I have to pay!
And several hundred of blocks mean several hundred Serial numbers?

Any more questions?
The Space Disco
Quote:
Good morning Reaktor Community,

wow, that spiraled off quickly! It's great to see a vivid discussion around the new update, always good to see that people really care about Reaktor. Hopefully needless to say: and so do we.

This update was in the first line meant to get more aspiring producers to engage with Reaktor, especially the big fraction of Reaktor Player owners, who haven't had the chance to even drag a wire up to now. Looking at the numbers, and judging from the interviews we had with less proficient users, the biggest hurdles to get into it were a cumbersome browser, the lack of saving patches with a host chunk session, and the abstract structure view for patching. This is what we solved with the update.

That said: yes, we also know that this update won't satisfy the great, but rather small, community of Reaktor builders. But please keep in mind that Reaktor has a pretty huge user base, which consists of a lot of different people with a varying level of knowledge. This time we served the vast majority first, who actually don't use user generated content, and are not ready yet to dive deeper into primary and core structures, but rather want to take benefit of the fun of building devices from easily connectable building blocks.

We see your frustration around the user generated content problem. This is not a trivial problem, opposed to some of the assumptions posted here. When we started the project, there was a solution on the horizon, that made it possible to upload any user generated content via a portal (also for free), and making the best of both world possible: sharing, and the safety-net to have identifiable Blocks (which is crucial for a reference based file format). This obviously did not happen in time. Nevertheless we released it as it is, to give the 99% of our users who don't actually build a chance to play around with the new format, and to see what the people are missing / would like to see as an improvement - as for instance: semi modulars, that may store wires in presets. And it turned out: user generated content is a hot topic. smile

On a personal note: I am really confused by the tone some people reacting on a free update. You haven't lost anything - patching in ensemble is same as possible as it was ever. Whatsoever: there are different types of users, who may deserve some love, too.

Best
Philipp
listentoaheartbeat
colb wrote:
listentoaheartbeat wrote:
Yes, I pointed this out in my post. Let me add that the open nature of the Ensemble does not lean itself to this kind of saving paradigm, which heavily relies on the more closed nature of the Rack format.


However, there is no reason why there couldn't be a format that allows the saving of front panel patch connections for ensembles. It could be an addition to the snapshot format that looks only at those inputs and outputs that are tagged 'visible'.


Unfortunately, saving connections in Snapshots is not a trivial at all. It would require a fundamental rebuild of the REAKTOR file structure. While this can be considered in the future, it was not an option for this release.
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