MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index
 FAQ & Terms of UseFAQ & Terms Of Use   Wiggler RadioMW Radio   Muff Wiggler TwitterTwitter   Support the site @ PatreonPatreon 
 SearchSearch   RegisterSign up   Log inLog in 
WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

$12,500 to spend. EMS Synthi A vs Modular
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Modular Synth General Discussion  
Author $12,500 to spend. EMS Synthi A vs Modular
joesdeals
I am wondering if I can build something similar if not better then the EMS Synthi VCS3 by using modular eurorack components.

If a VCS3 is worth $12,000+. What if I use that money to just build a modular wall with a joystick and matrix module?

What modules do I need to buy to replicate what a EMS Synthi could do?
soundslikejoe
Much of the Synthi's price is based on the rarity of the instrument.... not really just it's functionality. For $12k you would build something massive in Eurorack by comparison.... it wouldn't be able to clone the Synthi sound or workflow, but it would go far beyond that in flexibility and sound potential IMO.
soundslikejoe
This could be a useful matrix center..
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/alyseum-ms-matrix

.... here is a cheaper more Synthi style matrix.
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/future-sound-systems-mtx9
johnnywoods
You could easily replace the functions of the synthi for way less. What you can't replace is the feel and "mojo" of a single, complete instrument. Nothing will sound quite like a vintage synthi, and the portability/ergonomic factor can't really be replaced.
ersatzplanet
Look at the Analogue Systems licensed EMS modules. They make the envelope shaper and the filter, the only modules I feel that have the character of the VCS3. They also make some VCOs that can have responses up to 0.5v/oct which is closer to the EMS 0.32v/oct so you can get closer to the modulation sweeps that the Synthi does so well. Other than that, for the same amount of cash you can easily buy a MUCH larger system with many more modules that do MANY more functions than the VCS3.

The VCS3 is a very lovely machine, it was the first synth I ever owned. The package is nice but only really for the studio, it doesn't fold up into a traveling mode (the Synthi A is the one for that).

There are also many other quirks with the EMS stuff that make it much different to work with than the current crop of synths. Attenuation on the outputs of modules, and not the inputs, is a big one for instance. If you want a LFO to affect two different destinations differently, you have to use attenuation pins (which is a limited selection) for example since the destinations don't have input attenuation. The matrix is a great visual patching system but the pins are fragile and expensive to replace. Things like that.

Go onto Modulargrid and price out a dream rig. See how close you get to the VCS3. In fact, start with ALL the module sections of a VCS3 (or as close as you can get to them) and see how much you can ADD to that. I'm sure that will make up your mind.
ersatzplanet
johnnywoods wrote:
You could easily replace the functions of the synthi for way less. What you can't replace is the feel and "mojo" of a single, complete instrument. Nothing will sound quite like a vintage synthi, and the portability/ergonomic factor can't really be replaced.


This is spot on for sure. There is something ergonomically appealing to me about the Synthi line. For me it is more in the AKS than the VCS3. The AKS was just a great sweet machine to gig with. I had two of them though so that was less limiting than only one. The package was just perfect for a small system.
ablearcher
Same as others have said. Im 4 years (and many many hp) into euro and of the opinion it cant replace any of my monosynths, much less something as unique as a vcs3 or synthi. Its just a different feel and way of working even if you duplicate each of the functional blocks.
Nelson Baboon
So, I think that it is generally true, at least in the overall ui and work flow of the instrument, that individual modular synth modules can't totally emulate a self contained synth (at least the really good ones).

then it becomes a question of how important that one piece is to you, and what the threshold is for getting that experience. I don't think that many people would choose one of these for $50,000. Obviously (at least for almost everyone, I think) the increased overall functionality and variety would totally trump the one synth.

For 10,000+. I'm not interested, personally. but I guess if I were to give advice it would be to consider how much else you have, and how flexible a system you have now.

there are other considerations that can pop up. If you're familiar with the ems synths, maybe you foresee yourself gigging with them because you're really good at sustaining the quality of the music with that one piece.

My perhaps curmudgeonly opinion is that the values of some of these vintage pieces have gotten silly, and that while, if I were rich I might want to have some of them around, I think that much better stuff is made nowadays in general. My own choice at one point several years ago when I was considering an ems synth (forget which exact one, but it was cheaper than the prices now) was between it, and to go through with my fenix 2 + 3 purchase when my name finally came up. I discussed it thoroughly with someone who owns 2 of the ems synths (again - forget which exact ones), and he thought that the fenix would be a far better value and far more flexible. I'm glad that I went that route.

of course, in that price range you're not limited to eurorack. There are other formats, and other combinations of semi-jmodular synths, etc, that could provide you with some very interesting sounds.
joesdeals
I understand. Yes the EMS Synthi is one of a kind. Best solution is get one and also a module eurorack setup.

I am planning to use Synthi for video game sound effects and film.

Has anyone had any experience with The Hornet? EMS Synthi clone.

http://www.thesynthi.de/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=119&v=Him60eLFwXk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGmY-46Lf8M

Hornet is $6,700. So I can purchase one then purchase some eurorack modules.

soundslikejoe > thank you those matrix modules look fantastic.
BugBrand
What do you use already? That may give some pointers to your ways of working (sounds like it is work).

Plumping a large chunk down on first foray (I'm guessing) into Euro (or any other system/setup) sounds like a massive learning curve - the variety available in Euro is a strength and perhaps a weakness too.

Synthi = lots of limitations as mentioned above. That is useful in many ways for an 'instrument'. But, yes, it is pretty overpriced. You will never recreate the 'instrument' via modules (though you may make a nice system to play with)

Getting a Hornet + Euro ---- again brings in the excessive options of Euro.

You could do your work on many options (modular or non) for considerably less. Why do you need to spend so much in one go?

Nelson Baboon wrote:
of course, in that price range you're not limited to eurorack. There are other formats, and other combinations of semi-jmodular synths, etc, that could provide you with some very interesting sounds.


Wiard was the first setup that sprung to mind - could be damn nice.
Really, if you want an instrument to work on possibly best to get a nicely set up system and not have the endless battle of what if I add this & that (etc etc)
ranix
~$12k will get you a Dotcom Studio-88

https://www.synthesizers.com/studio88.html

if you have the room for 5u you won't regret it
CopperHydra
Build your massive modular for 12k, get really good at using it, then make friends with some one who has a vcs3
Drinking

My advice on building a modular is to start with as few modules as possible to make sounds. Maybe just an oscillator, a filter(or some way to modify timbre), a Dual/Quad VCA module, multiples and one control voltage source is enough because with just those modules you can get a wide variety of sound and knowledge.

Synths also sometimes like to be sent through external gear, which if you're using a modular, you'll need a way to bring the level down from 5v to whatever the gear requires either with an attenuator or an "Output" module.

With the modular stated above, a nice EQ like from BAE, a cool tape delay and a good converter/soundcard with some nice 3way monitors you could make a really cool album.

If you really just want to spend 12k on only a synth, go for it and skip this parable.

I started my hardware modular with just a VCF. I really liked that filter from demos I heard but the next day I realized that I needed a modular level preamp to power it and send my recordings into it like I did with my software filters. I chose a preamp that had an envelope follower with two outs and one with a lag plus a gate extractor. I did a lot with this setup, sometimes just sitting with my phone plugged into it sending signals to it from a $1 app.

Then I found that I really did want an analog oscillator after all. The next two modules were a VCO and another VCF, both, as I found out with the filter, could be used as LFO's. The VCO had a continuous waveform from Triangle to Saw with a CV input for "morphing" between the two and it also had a sync input with the amazing ability to track notes of an external Saw wave. The VCO also had PWM.

The next thing I did was build some multiples so I could really dig in to it. Over the next few weeks with this setup, I learned enough about my gear to understand what I was missing from it for what kind of sounds I wanted to hear from it. I was constantly experimenting with all the different ways that this tiny little setup could be arranged. I'd spent a little more that $1000 so far, since the filters were $400 each.

Two years later, here I am and I've spent over 12k on modules and outboard but I didn't cash out my entire savings right away. I've learned enough to be able to make most of the sounds I want to with the gear I have.
dsu
I have a Synthi AKS which I bought new in 1976 and some Eurorack stuff.

If I had nothing but money today I would think really hard before buying a used Sythni. They don't age well and depending on the condition you will need work done.

There is a bit of unubtainum in a Synthi so there is a risk that the $12,000 is just the beginning. Depending on where you live, service might be difficult.

However, as Ranix said, for 12K there are choices beyond Eurorack. Dotcom, and Serge come to mind as things worth investigating.

I can't get into a discussion about the Synthi "sound", it is too subjective for me but what I really love and haven't found equaled in the modular world is its playability. The key to this in my view is separating patching from controls with the matrix panel. Patching is fast with the synthi so repatching while playing live is encourage. There are no cables covering up the knobs so adjustment is easy.

I didn't realize this for a long time and it was only after playing with a Phenol and a Synthi side by side that I realized how annoying it was to dive in between the cables to twiddle the knobs. I'm not really sure how effective the eurorack matrix panels will be in reducing cable clutter over the knobs. I think it is possible but the skiff would need to be customized to provide pathways for cable runs between the Matrix and the modules. Sort of a uber version of the Make Noise shared system distribution panel.
pelican
Miss mine, but for 12 grand no way. half that is for rarity/collector value. You could easily get same functionality for less, but if you have to have it then go for it
joesdeals
Thanks for the replies. I wonder why the patch matrix is so rare on modern day synths. It seems so much more ideal than patch cables
joesdeals
dsu wrote:
I have a Synthi AKS which I bought new in 1976 and some Eurorack stuff.

If I had nothing but money today I would think really hard before buying a used Sythni. They don't age well and depending on the condition you will need work done.

There is a bit of unubtainum in a Synthi so there is a risk that the $12,000 is just the beginning. Depending on where you live, service might be difficult.

However, as Ranix said, for 12K there are choices beyond Eurorack. Dotcom, and Serge come to mind as things worth investigating.

I can't get into a discussion about the Synthi "sound", it is too subjective for me but what I really love and haven't found equaled in the modular world is its playability. The key to this in my view is separating patching from controls with the matrix panel. Patching is fast with the synthi so repatching while playing live is encourage. There are no cables covering up the knobs so adjustment is easy.

I didn't realize this for a long time and it was only after playing with a Phenol and a Synthi side by side that I realized how annoying it was to dive in between the cables to twiddle the knobs. I'm not really sure how effective the eurorack matrix panels will be in reducing cable clutter over the knobs. I think it is possible but the skiff would need to be customized to provide pathways for cable runs between the Matrix and the modules. Sort of a uber version of the Make Noise shared system distribution panel.


This is why I am very hesitant to spend money on a old vintage equipment.

I am really looking at the Hornet right now and spending the extra six thousand on a starting small eurorack.

Right now I have 3 x Mother 32 modules looks to expand from there.
Orwell
Go And find somewhere to test out an ems.

Check out the ems iPad app, can't say I've heard a more authentic analog vst or app. We compared it to a few ems synths on the spot and it stood up really well.

Think about what you want to accomplish in terms of sound.
Ems is heavy on sound effects, drones. It's over priced at the peak of the market

There is always a chance the ems will be cloned by mr. B.

Really if you are going to spend 12k on modular, it's worth driving to synth shop and tying out the euro modules.

Vcv rack is great starting point for trying out modules
Graham Hinton
joesdeals wrote:
I wonder why the patch matrix is so rare on modern day synths. It seems so much more ideal than patch cables


Because it is an expensive component and usually it is implemented incorrectly. The two mentioned above miss the whole point by not being able to sum, one is a crosspoint switch so it is merely a selector, the other uses shorting pins so it has no advantage over patch cables.

It is not a question of getting a filter that "sounds" like a Synthi filter, i.e. FET distortion, it is a question of getting a filter that can have 16 audio inputs and 16 CV inputs including itself. Standalone clone modules taken out of that context just sound a bit naff.

The people who made the Synthis famous, and hence "worth" silly money, got them because they were cheap and accessable, unlike modulars at the time that cost more than a house. They overcame the shortcomings and made records that sold millions and then stopped using them because they could then buy what they really wanted. David Bowie bought Brain Eno's Synthi A at a silly price because it was used on 'Heroes' and he thought he needed it to get "that sound" again, then died without using it. Ironically, that one is "worth" even more now, whatever happened to it. Brain Eno still sounds like Brian Eno whatever he uses.

I know a handful of people who have been performing with a Synthi continuously for four decades and if any of them had it broken or stolen they couldn't afford to replace it now due to "collectors".

New Synthis and clones are expensive now because they are built inefficiently with 1950s hand wiring. Putting together a similar module complement is also inefficient and expensive.
ndkent
I've had both a Synthi AKS and Eurorack for roughly 20 years. A synthi is it's own environment and workspace. It has a really interesting personality though is pretty basic. I'm in agreement that too many people want one as a sort of artifact or status piece. I'm sure there will be some better semi clones though obviously there is always a how close is close enough. Just having bits of it in another format isn't the same experience

You probably won't find the real thing anything like a good value but you should work to try to arrange some time on one and maybe a bigger modular too. Only you can decide what gives you the experience and sound you would like. One person's "close enough" is an other person's "nothing like it"
sitarman
maybe if we are lucky Behringer will clone the synthi next Enjoy the show!
joesdeals
Orwell wrote:
Go And find somewhere to test out an ems.

Check out the ems iPad app, can't say I've heard a more authentic analog vst or app. We compared it to a few ems synths on the spot and it stood up really well.

Think about what you want to accomplish in terms of sound.
Ems is heavy on sound effects, drones. It's over priced at the peak of the market

There is always a chance the ems will be cloned by mr. B.

Really if you are going to spend 12k on modular, it's worth driving to synth shop and tying out the euro modules.

Vcv rack is great starting point for trying out modules



The app is amazing. The devs said it was so close to their real vcs3 they couldn't tell the difference. So I have been playing in the app making tons of presets and saving them is a great feature.

I am seriously considering getting the portabella clone
http://www.matrixsynth.com/2017/02/portabella-sound-preview-sync-for-4 -pins.html

then use the rest my budget on a synth keyboard like the Moog Voyager XL and some eurorack modules to dip my toes into.

I just got started in the world of Eurorack modules, I got 3 of the Mother 32 and that already is an amazing experience. So many combinations.
ersatzplanet
Graham Hinton wrote:

The people who made the Synthis famous, and hence "worth" silly money, got them because they were cheap and accessable, unlike modulars at the time that cost more than a house. They overcame the shortcomings and made records that sold millions and then stopped using them because they could then buy what they really wanted. David Bowie bought Brain Eno's Synthi A at a silly price because it was used on 'Heroes' and he thought he needed it to get "that sound" again, then died without using it. Ironically, that one is "worth" even more now, whatever happened to it. Brain Eno still sounds like Brian Eno whatever he uses.


This is spot on. Especially the "Brain Eno still sounds like Brian Eno whatever he uses." bit. (remember he was fond of DX7s for a long time.)
wackelpeter
When a VCS3 or AKS clone some day pops up for 1000-1500 euro, count me in for one. Otherwise i rather stick to other gear and my DIY stuff.
SmokyClap
I had a friend who owned a Synthi and it's probably the best sounding synth I've ever heard. With that said, unless I was uber wealthy, I'd spend that money on a lot of other things before I bought one. With half of that you'd have an amazing euro system and a lot of spare change for other stuff.
akairipper
The dude that mak the vcs3 sent me a quote 10 months ago for a new one for about 5 grand (pounds) I want one but not that much and no way would I waste 12.5 on an old one. I used to have one in the studio I worked in and itvwas amazing but never ever ever worth that money. Get some modular and a vermona spring reverb and buy a new car with the change.
sduck
You might be able to rustle up a clone - http://www.phutney.com

I'm in the process of building one of these for another muffwiggler. It's a really substantial build, not for the faint of heart.
joesdeals
Does anyone on this forum have the Hornet ?

I will look up that one too.
joesdeals
What beginning eurorack modules can I start with? Or should start with?
WaveRider
start with a voice or 2, and 2 sequencers, clock divider etc....

there is no point in starting too small, get to a point you can do something then after that learn, and buy modules 1 by 1...

so 1 voice can be:
1 osc, 1 filter, 1 lfo, 2 eg, 1 vca.... do not worry about witch modules you get, buy good brands.. get 2 of those

-a couple of sequencers

-clock dividers, switches, utility modules

then learn with what you have for a while, then get more esoteric stuff...
ersatzplanet
If you are lusting for a Synthi AKS then the first modules I would suggest would be the ones closest to those in a Synthi.

For a VCO, I would get a couple of Analogue Systems RS95E VCOs. They have similar have shaping as the EMS VCOs (only CV controllable), Vernier tuning knobs like the EMS, 1v/oct response to match current specs, but also a variable CV in that can go down to 0.5v/Oct witch will see similarly like the EMS's 0.32v/Oct (but of course not exactly).

For the Filter I would get the AS RS500e - "Genuine Ems synthi filter. This legendary filter can be switched between pre1974 and post 1974 filter type and response. For the first time response can be voltage controlled which was designed on the circuit board but not available on the matrix. This module is made under license from Ems."

For Envelope and VCA combo like the EMS ones (they were one module), I would get the AS RS510e - "Genuine Ems trapezoid generator featuring Attack, On, Decay, Off and Trapezoid output level. With v.c of Decay time, status led, Sig in and Sig out, Gate in and Outputs A and B this classic timing generator when used with Rs500e captures the essence of the VCS3
and Synthi A. This module is made under license from Ems"

Get a good LFO. The AS RS85 is a nice one with an extended range (it can go down to one cycle every 200 seconds and up to 1.4K) Level controls for the waveform outs make it similar to the EMS stuff which had only output level controls.

Note the AS stuff does have some extra hurdles to use in a standard Doepfer style Eurorack system. The power connections are different but you can easily get adaptors in cable form and as little PCBs. The hole spacing is slightly different so next to a Doepfer style panel there will be a 1/2HP gap. buy a whole row and this won''t be a problem or by the 1.5HP blanks that Doepfer sells.

For the other "modules" in the VCS3 or Synthi A, almost any equivalent will do. This will not sound exactly the same as the EMS stuff of course. These modules will be as close as you can practically get. The Ergonomics of course will be WAY different. There will be things you can do with these modules that you can't do this the EMS just cause it will be easier to patch them up to other things and you will have some added CV ins that you would have to mod the originals to do.

This would be a good starting place if the EMS stuff was a goal.
Sleipnir
joesdeals wrote:
Thanks for the replies. I wonder why the patch matrix is so rare on modern day synths. It seems so much more ideal than patch cables

Heh, I was going to also suggest you try the app and see if the matrix is for you, but you have and it seems like it is.
Personally, it drives me batshit and is super limiting (though that can be a feature in some ways).
Graham Hinton
ersatzplanet wrote:
If you are lusting for a Synthi AKS then the first modules I would suggest would be the ones closest to those in a Synthi.


Theoretically, but in practise they don't sound the same or feel the same. Several people have brought me those AS modules wondering if something was wrong with them and I had to ask what they expected out of context. The circuits are the same, but they are pretty low performance circuits. It was the same when SE were buying up Minimoogs when nobody wanted them [sic.] and repackaging them in 19" format with MIDI. An expensive disappointment.

The only part of a Synthi that stands up on its own, well after a few necessary mods, is the Oscillators. I have custom rebuilt (NOT cloned) a few in 3U format like this:



and this did have the feel of the original even though it was different.
I have been asked to do the same for the Filter/EG/RM board and refused--it just wouldn't meet expectations and isn't worth the effort at any price.
The Synthis are more than the sum of their parts, but you need experience with them to understand that.
gruebleengourd
ersatzplanet wrote:

This is spot on. Especially the "Brain Eno still sounds like Brian Eno whatever he uses." bit. (remember he was fond of DX7s for a long time.)


Well, he is at his best when he is using other musicians (cause then he doesn't sound so much like Eno alone).
wackelpeter
Isn't also the fact that there are some design flaws like crosstalk, bad wiring that gave those EMS synth that unique sound, or do i remember that wrong?

I would stay away from spending 12k on that synth, well it's really nice one, but if you have money to burn there are several ways you could get better get rid of it.

I've seen a few crap videos with an EMS synthi on Youtube and of course that doesn't mean that there aren't good ones. And from that decent videos i felt the half is just re-producing the On The Run by PF. So i would strongly believe owing an EMS results in no proof that the musical output will be satisfying.
I would look at gear form the point what features and functionality it will provide and what i can achieve with it, wihtout looking for names and brands.
I only limit myself to only include analog gear into my setup, using no midi and no stuff that has a display and menue on it. smile
joesdeals
Thanks, I will get started very soon with my eurorack journey

Looking at some cases as well

https://reverb.com/item/4614137-odd-aeon-eurorack-case-15u
lud
When looking at high end analogue synths did you check out the Macbeth Elements?
I haven't played it but it looks awesome
Graham Hinton
wackelpeter wrote:
Isn't also the fact that there are some design flaws like crosstalk, bad wiring that gave those EMS synth that unique sound, or do i remember that wrong?


It is as much a fact as that the Sun goes round the Earth. A medieval religious belief, enforced by burning heretics at the stake, that does not stand up to reason.
3001
Graham Hinton wrote:
ersatzplanet wrote:
If you are lusting for a Synthi AKS then the first modules I would suggest would be the ones closest to those in a Synthi.


Theoretically, but in practise they don't sound the same or feel the same. Several people have brought me those AS modules wondering if something was wrong with them and I had to ask what they expected out of context. The circuits are the same, but they are pretty low performance circuits. It was the same when SE were buying up Minimoogs when nobody wanted them [sic.] and repackaging them in 19" format with MIDI. An expensive disappointment.

The only part of a Synthi that stands up on its own, well after a few necessary mods, is the Oscillators. I have custom rebuilt (NOT cloned) a few in 3U format like this:



and this did have the feel of the original even though it was different.
I have been asked to do the same for the Filter/EG/RM board and refused--it just wouldn't meet expectations and isn't worth the effort at any price.
The Synthis are more than the sum of their parts, but you need experience with them to understand that.


Are these for sale?

I'm with you on the "stand up on it's own" aspect. I had a matrix panel from digitana with my AKS, and what I came to realize is that the synthi parts aren't that special on their own, it's the interface that does it. I swapped out the filter for the arp2600 filter, and it was very hard to tell the difference... The oscillators definitely shine though.

I do miss my synthis, and I've had a few over the past few years. But I keep getting bored as hell of them. They have some amazing sounds, but I feel that just about all the sounds have been over done, and you can get them other ways. And the nicest part...less noise floor on newer stuff...

Its time to move into 2017...we want to make "futuristic" music anyway, no?
joesdeals
3001 wrote:
Graham Hinton wrote:
ersatzplanet wrote:
If you are lusting for a Synthi AKS then the first modules I would suggest would be the ones closest to those in a Synthi.


Theoretically, but in practise they don't sound the same or feel the same. Several people have brought me those AS modules wondering if something was wrong with them and I had to ask what they expected out of context. The circuits are the same, but they are pretty low performance circuits. It was the same when SE were buying up Minimoogs when nobody wanted them [sic.] and repackaging them in 19" format with MIDI. An expensive disappointment.

The only part of a Synthi that stands up on its own, well after a few necessary mods, is the Oscillators. I have custom rebuilt (NOT cloned) a few in 3U format like this:



and this did have the feel of the original even though it was different.
I have been asked to do the same for the Filter/EG/RM board and refused--it just wouldn't meet expectations and isn't worth the effort at any price.
The Synthis are more than the sum of their parts, but you need experience with them to understand that.


Are these for sale?

I'm with you on the "stand up on it's own" aspect. I had a matrix panel from digitana with my AKS, and what I came to realize is that the synthi parts aren't that special on their own, it's the interface that does it. I swapped out the filter for the arp2600 filter, and it was very hard to tell the difference... The oscillators definitely shine though.

I do miss my synthis, and I've had a few over the past few years. But I keep getting bored as hell of them. They have some amazing sounds, but I feel that just about all the sounds have been over done, and you can get them other ways. And the nicest part...less noise floor on newer stuff...

Its time to move into 2017...we want to make "futuristic" music anyway, no?


The EMS Synthi potential was barely tapped into... millions of combinations to make unique sounds. It really is endless.
Graham Hinton
3001 wrote:
Are these for sale?


Not really. I built one for somebody on this forum and a couple of people who happened to have an EMS Oscillator card have asked me to make them one too, but it's hard work. As it is built around an EMS pcb it has to have all the hand wiring, so it is very labour intensive.
Custom EMS Oscillator Bank

Quote:

I had a matrix panel from digitana with my AKS, and what I came to realize is that the synthi parts aren't that special on their own, it's the interface that does it.


I've never seen the point of what digitana does. A Synthi somehow works with the combination it has, but when you try extending it it just falls apart. Like a Synthi 100.

joesdeals wrote:
The EMS Synthi potential was barely tapped into... millions of combinations to make unique sounds. It really is endless.


I can't agree with that. Most of the permutations of the matrix don't give you anything usable, but it does allow you to easily patch things that would be very difficult on other systems and that you just wouldn't think of doing.

A few people wrung a lot out of them in the '70s and then moved on. You don't see any of these collectors doing a 2 hour live set with just a pair of Synthi As, like Zorch or Crystal Machine did, and you don't hear much apart from cliches and bug noises from the cloners.
djhyperspace
always interested in what mr.Hinton has to say
WaveRider
djhyperspace wrote:
always interested in what mr.Hinton has to say


agreed smile

...there is not that much mythical stuff from that golden past anymore, yes a few synths remain unequalled but the golden age is really TODAY

...never been so many good synths and drum machines, affordable gear than now... Rockin' Banana!
ersatzplanet
Buy a Buchla Easel and a Buchla Easel-K. Then you would have two portable systems that have a lot of sound potential. Or just buy one and spend the rest on Euro.
nickbaba
Hey dude. lots of good advice here.

The Macbeth Elements is a gorgeous hi-end monosynth but its apples and oranges compared with an EMS. There's a resemblance 'cos of the Vernier dials, (and it sounds great) but under the hood they are different beasts. Elements is basically a fixed architecture synth, you have some A/B routing options on switches but there's no deep patching available like an EMS matrix.

I also looked into the Portabella recently, with tax it was going to cost close to 7,000 GBP in the end - that's a major chunk of your 12,000 US. I have not played with one but there's always that clone thing of "how close is it?" especially if you really wanted a Synthi in the first place and got the clone as plan B. I'm sure it'll be an amazing portable synth, but chances are it'll be its own beast.

If you want and desire a vintage Synthi then you may have to bite the bullet and admit that nothing else will scratch that itch. Yes, they are overpriced in today's market. Will prices continue to rise? Most probably. The rarity and the 'woo' factor will see to that. Just ask someone who nearly bought one 10 years ago and didn't because the price back then seemed like silly money at the time.

Synthis do still change hands in private sales for less than dealer/Reverb/bay prices. There was one on BST here a few weeks ago for 8.5k (US) in NY...that's less than the Portabella will cost you. Yes, you are buying vintage kit, and may have issues down the line. Unfortunately there's no way round that (maybe apart from buying a used Cornwall Synthi or VCS3 if you can find one). We in the UK/EU are in the same boat (as it were) with the BEMI Easel... prone to failures and no tech support this side of the Atlantic. But there must be tech dudes in the US who can service EMS for you. At worst there are a couple of guys here in UK & EU who know their stuff, not to mention EMS themselves who will also service and support their vintage units.

Yes, you could buy a bunch of euro for that money. You could have a bunch of VCOs and VCFs and FX etc etc. You will be able to make a bunch of sounds. It will be a very useful set of tools. And maybe that's what you want and need. Fair enough, that's very sensible.

But will it thrill you? Will it make you feel excited to flip the On switch? These things are functional musical tools, of course, but they also inspire emotions in us. Just like music itself, on one level it's simply maths, but it also makes us feel things which cannot be quantified.

Personally I don't disagree with the advice given here by these very knowledgeable people. You could buy a lot of modules/other synths for 12k. The Synthi is limited in function, and vintage in character. But imho a good EMS is also the hands-down best-sounding monosynth there is. It just has a living breathing hefty quality to it that's hard to find elsewhere. And you could end up spending the price of a real Synthi on chasing that sound in euro or on a Synthi clone.

If I was in your situation, and I had decided I really wanted to own one, I'd bide my time, wait for the right deal, and spend the rest on a small euro set-up to complement the Synthi and 'fill in the gaps' on the functions it lacks. I very much doubt you'll regret buying one, but even if you do, I doubt you'll have a problem selling it on.
mousegarden
ersatzplanet wrote:
Graham Hinton wrote:

The people who made the Synthis famous, and hence "worth" silly money, got them because they were cheap and accessable, unlike modulars at the time that cost more than a house. They overcame the shortcomings and made records that sold millions and then stopped using them because they could then buy what they really wanted. David Bowie bought Brain Eno's Synthi A at a silly price because it was used on 'Heroes' and he thought he needed it to get "that sound" again, then died without using it. Ironically, that one is "worth" even more now, whatever happened to it. Brain Eno still sounds like Brian Eno whatever he uses.


This is spot on. Especially the "Brain Eno still sounds like Brian Eno whatever he uses." bit. (remember he was fond of DX7s for a long time.)


Be interesting to hear what Brian Eno thinks about the current modular trend...
wsy
ersatzplanet wrote:
Buy a Buchla Easel and a Buchla Easel-K. Then you would have two portable systems that have a lot of sound potential. Or just buy one and spend the rest on Euro.


Yeah, I was going to say that.

New BEMI easels are available and the price isn't crazy... and when i had a problem, new boards magically arrived in the mail
from BEMI and got me up and running in just a couple of days!

No, they're not the same thing. The question is this: if you enjoy it or not. If nothing but an AKS will do, then, well, nothing but an
AKS will do. If you want that "flavor" of machine, then I would definitely go with the Easel or Easel-K, because I've used
both and I definitely like the Easel-K more (yes, get the AUX EXPANDER!)

It also might matter where you are- if you're in the UK then servicing a vintage (== cranky as heck) AKS will be easier than it is
here in the USA. The reverse will be true in Europe - I would see what Schneidersladen and such had good service relationships with
and try to work within that.

Get what you think will please you more in the long run. Including cost and frustration as well as joy and satisfaction.

- Bill
mousegarden
The funny thing is,when I had my VCS3 in 1976, I didn't think it was anything special, it was just a secondhand synth, one that I could afford at the time. I really wanted a Mini Moog, but couldn't find one at the right price. I found the VCS3 annoying, it seemed to be badly made, not very robust, and it hummed like crazy. I never connected with it, I wouldn't mind one now, purely for nostalgia reasons, but that's it.
I sold it as soon as I could and bought a Mini Moog, which enabled me to do exactly what I wanted to do simply, and with the minimum of fuss, unlike the VCS3.
Graham Hinton
mousegarden wrote:
I found the VCS3 annoying, it seemed to be badly made, not very robust, and it hummed like crazy.


When the VCS3 was announced it was priced at £175, but by the time it was actually shipping it had jumped to £330. That was a lot more than a decent guitar then especially when in my first job then I wasn't taking home £20 a week. When I first got my hands on one in 1972 I was disappointed, it didn't really meet its own spec and some of the corner cutting was unbelievable. In particular the nasty cheap Erie pots they used sounded and felt like broken bones grinding together--instant recoil. I was glad that I hadn't tried to save up for one. Then I found that it was very easily modified and with a small effort it could be vastly improved. I didn't actually get my own until 1980 when I bought one from a drummer in a band who though it was "old rubbish" (which was pretty much the general opinion then) and as they had it sampled on their Kurweil they had no further need for it [sic.]. I didn't argue with him. First thing I did was replace all the Erie pots.

To be fair nothing else was well made then, nobody used pcbs with solder masks because they were an expensive optional extra. Moogs and ARPs were pretty ropey inside too, the first decently made synth I saw was the Prophet 5 in 1976.

Somebody posted a picture of the EMS factory on the EMS Synthi waiting list thread recently.
Several things struck me: no up to date production methods even for the time, what a dump that factory was (I had forgotten), but mainly that even in its heyday sales were not covering the wages. If you want to make a little money out of synths... start with a lot of money. The current price of around £5k is probably fair for the work involved, but that begs the question of why that much work is involved. It could be <£3k and easier to make, but as long as people hold an irrational belief that it would lose something if it isn't "original" that isn't going to happen. When Robin told me that he was having the Erie pots remade especially for him I was too stunned for words, mine was all conductive plastic, but that's the difference do you want a myth or a tool? A myth is priceless, but I wouldn't pay $12500 for a 3 VCO mono voice.
ersatzplanet
I was always amazed by all the hand wiring inside the thing. All these neat cable tied bundles coming off the pots and going down to the edge connectors for the PCBs. I am amazed Robin hasn't at least made a PCB for that bit. All the Pots and switches PCB mounted with the edge connectors on it for the 3 PCBs. That compromise alone would save him hours of labor (though they would still have to deal with the matrix). That is, if he is still making them the same way mine were in the late 70's.
mousegarden
I had a few problems with my VCS3 when I had it, and I also needed some first hand advice about how to get certain sounds and effects. I rang EMS a couple of times and their atitude was very strange, like, I should really know what I was doing, and my god, it's obvious that to cure that problem you had to do this, don't you know that? Also there were long gaps in the conversation, like they'd hung up, it was like they thought I had stolen the thing or something and wondered who on earth this ignorant person was.
BTByrd
I'd pay $12,000 for a Synthi 100.
B-ry
For what it’s worth.....


I think it is important to work within your means and also to follow the form factor and workflow that inspires you. EMS stuff is exxxxxpensive for sure. The other side of that coin is that the values will keep rising. They are rare, sound unique and (IMHO) cannot truly be replicated. If you look at it from an investment viewpoint it can be a win (so long as you are. It going to compromise your current quality of life to purchase).
raylinds
A friend has a Synthi and it is great sounding, but it is in the shop fairly frequently. You could make a great modular for that kind of money.
ersatzplanet
Since this post is a year old, I wonder what the original poster ended up buying?
wackelpeter
ersatzplanet wrote:
Since this post is a year old, I wonder what the original poster ended up buying?


stopped making synth music and bought a guitar and a drum kit... wink
woVERTICES
I have a Pin Electronics Portabella and I love it...the random voltage generator combined w/the joystick is a potent sonic combo. I actually prefer it to my brother's aged EMS Synthi AKS, but that's certainly a matter of personal taste.
Best,
John
www.johnjpotter.com
joesdeals
Yes long time I have posted in this thread of mine.

I did end up buying a full eurorack modular solution.

I will wait on the Synthi until I got the balls to take the plunge at getting one. I think there is a lot of risk involved with a synth so old. I would have to try and test in person .

Got some great synths as well like the OB-6, Rev 2 Prophet, Arturia Matrix Brute. Moog Sub 37.

And about $7,000 in modules / pedals.
ersatzplanet
joesdeals wrote:
Yes long time I have posted in this thread of mine.

I did end up buying a full eurorack modular solution.

I will wait on the Synthi until I got the balls to take the plunge at getting one. I think there is a lot of risk involved with a synth so old. I would have to try and test in person .

Got some great synths as well like the OB-6, Rev 2 Prophet, Arturia Matrix Brute. Moog Sub 37.

And about $7,000 in modules / pedals.


As a previous owner of 2 Synthi AKS and a VCS3 (all at the same time), I can attest at the draw of the packaging. The suitcase is brilliant design and the pin matrix, although having some major flaws and some bad design choices, was very fun to patch. I feel that they are simply not worth the money they are asking for used ones nowadays. I got mine for about $500 each in 1975 dollars. For the +$10K they go for today, you can get the somewhat pricy Analogue Systems licensed clones and pay somebody to make a custom case and make all the extra bits and may still have money left over, and will have new tech that will be repairable and up-dateable. The only way anyone would ever tell the difference is if they had a real Synthi next to it to compare, and that would be comparing to that particular Synthi. Having three of them myself, the same patch never sounded the same on all of them.
mousegarden
ersatzplanet wrote:
joesdeals wrote:
Yes long time I have posted in this thread of mine.

I did end up buying a full eurorack modular solution.

I will wait on the Synthi until I got the balls to take the plunge at getting one. I think there is a lot of risk involved with a synth so old. I would have to try and test in person .

Got some great synths as well like the OB-6, Rev 2 Prophet, Arturia Matrix Brute. Moog Sub 37.

And about $7,000 in modules / pedals.


As a previous owner of 2 Synthi AKS and a VCS3 (all at the same time), I can attest at the draw of the packaging. The suitcase is brilliant design and the pin matrix, although having some major flaws and some bad design choices, was very fun to patch. I feel that they are simply not worth the money they are asking for used ones nowadays. I got mine for about $500 each in 1975 dollars. For the +$10K they go for today, you can get the somewhat pricy Analogue Systems licensed clones and pay somebody to make a custom case and make all the extra bits and may still have money left over, and will have new tech that will be repairable and up-dateable. The only way anyone would ever tell the difference is if they had a real Synthi next to it to compare, and that would be comparing to that particular Synthi. Having three of them myself, the same patch never sounded the same on all of them.


I loved the pin matrix, somehow it encourages more off the wall patching for some reason, I'm looking at a MatrixBrute now, for this very reason, I'm not paying those sums for an EMS, no way.
Rex Coil 7
mousegarden wrote:
... I loved the pin matrix, somehow it encourages more off the wall patching for some reason, I'm looking at a MatrixBrute now, for this very reason
I just finished reading the entire thread up to this point, and I kept thinking the same thing ... "if you must have a pin matrix, there's a wonderful 21st Century rendition offered in the Arturia Matrixbrute available for $2K". If I weren't already neck deep into a normalized 5U modular performance synth project, I'd most likely go with a MatrixBrute and a Dave Smith Pro2, along with one of the Yamaha 5 octave performance synths such as the new MoDX or one of the Montage units.

Only thing that worries me about the Matrixbrute is the reliability of the button matrix, however I suppose that model has been out long enough to produce information that may confirm my concerns, if it exists.

mousegarden wrote:
I'm not paying those sums for an EMS, no way.
For anyone willing to ... I like to discuss some beach property I have for sale located here in the southwestern Arizona region of the Sonoran Desert. I can make you one hell of a deal on (let's say) 500 acres or so.

(I said beach property, I never said anything about it being near a body of water).


cool
ersatzplanet
mousegarden wrote:
I loved the pin matrix, somehow it encourages more off the wall patching for some reason, I'm looking at a MatrixBrute now, for this very reason, I'm not paying those sums for an EMS, no way.


The pin matrix is a lovely concept and would be a great way to do patching if done correctly. The slide matrix on the Arp2500 is another close contender. The problem with both of these implementations though is that they were passive. At least on the 2500 the ins and outs on modules were buffered (at least it seemed that way, I don't remember any droop at all). The reverse topology on the Synthi stuff was its biggest design flaw to me. There was no input attenuation, only output. That means if you wanted to send one source, like an LFO for instance, to two destination (like a filter and VCO), the only way you could have different levels of LFO was to use a attenuation Pin (the green ones IIRC) that were of a fixed value. Also every time you added a CV to any pitch chain involving the keyboard, you had to re-scale the keyboard and if you added too many things, it would not be able to scale enough.

Though a Synthi is capable of making melodic sounds and be used as a simple synth, it is much better suited for abstract stuff because of these limitations. A modern synth with buffered matrixes and a modern topology are SO much easier to deal with.
sitarman
yeah, what he said, maybe matrixbute with a joystick into cv ins......
Graham Hinton
ersatzplanet wrote:

The reverse topology on the Synthi stuff was its biggest design flaw to me. There was no input attenuation, only output.


It's not a design flaw it's a consequence of having a mixer incorporated, which is what the matrix is. The output levels on each section are really the input levels to a mixer. You wouldn't want a mixer with fixed maximum input levels and only one output level.

Quote:

That means if you wanted to send one source, like an LFO for instance, to two destination (like a filter and VCO), the only way you could have different levels of LFO was to use a attenuation Pin (the green ones IIRC) that were of a fixed value.


Not the only way, there was the Inverter Pin mod which essentially put what is now called an attenuverter at any point in the matrix.
ersatzplanet
[quote="Graham Hinton"]
It's not a design flaw it's a consequence of having a mixer incorporated, which is what the matrix is. The output levels on each section are really the input levels to a mixer. You wouldn't want a mixer with fixed maximum input levels and only one output level.
Quote:


Then I guess I would consider the mixer incorporation to be the flaw. I understand the extra electronics needed to make an active matrix and know the limitations there too, but the topology being backwards from every other synthesizer I know of, back when it was made and currently being made, was always a problem even with the simplest patches that shared control CVs in multiple places. Using one axis of the joystick for more than one thing for instance.

[quote="Graham Hinton"]
Not the only way, there was the Inverter Pin mod which essentially put what is now called an attenuverter at any point in the matrix.


Were those available when the Synthi was made? They sure were not a standard part (I didn't know of the reverse matrixes between the VCS3 and the AKS). Sure there are work arounds, as is the nature of modular synthesis. You could pass things out one output (or the scope out) and back into the machine and attenuate (or boost) at that point but that was hardly efficient.

Just try one of the common patches you make all the time and use only the non-attenuating inputs of the modules. Use attenuators at the CV sources and multiples after that. That will give you a feel of what I mean.

I loved the Synthi. I wish I had kept mine even though I probably would have really abused them by now. I just bring up the topology thing because is is not obvious to many synthi lusters looking at these machines.
Graham Hinton
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
"if you must have a pin matrix, there's a wonderful 21st Century rendition offered in the Arturia Matrixbrute available for $2K".


That is a digital matrix for digital modulation sources only. You don't think that you get 256 VCA/DCAs for that price do you?

You can do the reverse price analysis and work out the component cost (subtract dealer, distributor and manufacturer markups) and then work out the cost of the switches and what sort of lifetime can be expected...

ersatzplanet wrote:
Then I guess I would consider the mixer incorporation to be the flaw.


If you have a matrix that doesn't mix then you end up with a white elephant like the Vostok or ETI which just use shorting pins.

Quote:

I understand the extra electronics needed to make an active matrix and know the limitations there too,


This is nothing to do with active versus passive matrices.

Quote:

Were those available when the Synthi was made?


I believe that the mod originated in the 1970s EMS service department who added features for customers unbeknown to the management.

Quote:
Just try one of the common patches you make all the time and use only the non-attenuating inputs of the modules.


Common patches for what? You can't do common Synthi patches on most other synthesizers. So what?

Quote:
I loved the Synthi.


Yeah, sounds like it.
ersatzplanet
Graham Hinton wrote:

Quote:
I loved the Synthi.


Yeah, sounds like it.


I know you have a reputation as a curmudgeonry guy on this board, but you don't have to add snarky to it too. I did love my Synthi's and had them for over a decade. I can love them and still point out their limitations. Just like I can call you snarky and still respect you.
EPTC
Jumping into this late, but if the question is "Synthi or modular" my guess is go for modular; you can immerse yourself in any variety of modules and not spend the entire $12,500 in one go, too. Might have a much more creative year if you spend $1000/month on modules (what FUN!) instead of twelve grand once, which might be slightly panic inducing.

If you want to really focus on a single instrument and already know it well to the point of dedication, then go $12 grand for the Synthi. But if it's for creative exploration 2-3 modules a month for a year will likely yield a more satisfying experience. (and maybe more original sounding work, as well, from the variety)
mousegarden
I think we ought to get synth prices in true perspective, compared with a lot of other instruments. A "decent" acoustic piano by someone like Bluthner or Steinway will be a lot more than say, a Synthi 100, a sax player or violinist just takes it for granted that his/her instrument is going to cost upwards of £10,000, possibly a lot more.
Paying five/ten grand for a vintage synth is at the bottom end of the music market in reality.
cycad73
Spend 25000 and get both, they will complement each other very well. it's probably better to start off with the conventional modular though.
MindMachine
joesdeals wrote:
I am wondering if I can build something similar if not better then the EMS Synthi VCS3 by using modular eurorack components.


Absolutely.

joesdeals wrote:
If a VCS3 is worth $12,000+. What if I use that money to just build a modular wall with a joystick and matrix module?

No.

joesdeals wrote:
What modules do I need to buy to replicate what a EMS Synthi could do?


All of them.
mousegarden
Replicas and imitations will leave you feeling very "meh" like owning a reproduction painting, when if you'd waited a bit you could have had the real thing. And you will always have this annoying thought in your mind.

This?



Or this?



This?



Or this?



Simply......no thanks.
joesdeals
^

Hard to argue with that.

Synthi is very unique
wsy
Part of the "Synthi / VCS3 Thing" is just how BAD they are compared to other equipment of the day, let alone now.

Take the pin matrix design. Piece. Of. Junk. No EE would ever use it that way; it's crosstalk city at best. And the pins get
gratchy if you don't twist em just right. And when you pin one osc to two inputs, and another osc to ONE of those inputs, guess
what - now the second osc gets moduation up one pin and down the other.

How about a sync input that, when getting static, blows out several FETs including those in the oscillators? Still haven't fixed the
buddy's VCS3 that he whacked exactly that way.

There's actually a whole set of mods just to fix the design idiocies in the Synthi, make the pin matrix more usable, add a
CV inverter, a lag, a S&H, fix the hum from the reverb.... all that.

It's not like the Synthi/Putney/AKS aren't good for what they do. But jeez, it's also not like they are some exquisite jewel. Like
a Moog, like a Buchla Easel, it simply IS WHAT IT IS. That's all. God didn't make them on the seventh day because he was
bored or something like that.

- Bill
Graham Hinton
wsy wrote:

How about a sync input that, when getting static, blows out several FETs including those in the oscillators? Still haven't fixed the
buddy's VCS3 that he whacked exactly that way.


There are no FETs in the oscillators.
wsy
Graham Hinton wrote:
wsy wrote:

How about a sync input that, when getting static, blows out several FETs including those in the oscillators? Still haven't fixed the
buddy's VCS3 that he whacked exactly that way.


There are no FETs in the oscillators.


You are probably right. And he did something he probably shouldn't have. But I do recall having to find some FETs at
Mouser which would work, then designing a tiny little circuit board to mount the Mouser FETs on, the Mouser part being
SMT and the originals being in little wire-type cases.

Anyway, we fixed the sync input but the oscs still don't osc.

- Bill
XXXEsq
At this point, I'd consider a Moog One and then spend the rest on a large DotCom 5U system to interface with it.
joesdeals
The moog one is so sexy.... Totally worth the $10k for the 16 voice..
mousegarden
joesdeals wrote:
The moog one is so sexy.... Totally worth the $10k for the 16 voice..


It seems a lot more expensive in the USA than it is in the UK?
I've seen it advertised here for £5,999 GBP.
I'm interested in these "Eventide Effects" wonder what they are?
MindMachine
Graham Hinton wrote:
... the first decently made synth I saw was the Prophet 5 in 1976.


Where did you see it? Did you have a crystal ball?
joesdeals
mousegarden wrote:
joesdeals wrote:
The moog one is so sexy.... Totally worth the $10k for the 16 voice..


It seems a lot more expensive in the USA than it is in the UK?
I've seen it advertised here for £5,999 GBP.
I'm interested in these "Eventide Effects" wonder what they are?



Full article here:

https://www.eventideaudio.com/news/press-release/eventide-suite-reverb s-new-flagship-analog-poly-synth-moog-s-first-30-years
mousegarden
joesdeals wrote:
mousegarden wrote:
joesdeals wrote:
The moog one is so sexy.... Totally worth the $10k for the 16 voice..


It seems a lot more expensive in the USA than it is in the UK?
I've seen it advertised here for £5,999 GBP.
I'm interested in these "Eventide Effects" wonder what they are?



Full article here:

https://www.eventideaudio.com/news/press-release/eventide-suite-reverb s-new-flagship-analog-poly-synth-moog-s-first-30-years


I want "One" even more now.... hihi

And yes, the romantic stuff about the marriage of Moog and Eventide gets to me every time, I'm seduced.
papz
woah woah Wait...
This VCS3 is not working as it should, you most likely never saw a good working one, the interventions that you and/or a previous "tech" inflicted to it are unproper, you obviously didn't even look at the service manual or schematics during your attempts to "service" it (or if you ever did you didn't understand) and you dare to assert shamelessly that it's a BAD design ? Who do you think you are ?
It's because of people like you that instruments get such a poor undue reputation.

You and your buddy please stop ruining this VCS3, ask a COMPETENT tech to take care of it and sell it to someone able to operate it worthily.

wsy wrote:
Graham Hinton wrote:
wsy wrote:

How about a sync input that, when getting static, blows out several FETs including those in the oscillators? Still haven't fixed the
buddy's VCS3 that he whacked exactly that way.


There are no FETs in the oscillators.


You are probably right. And he did something he probably shouldn't have. But I do recall having to find some FETs at
Mouser which would work, then designing a tiny little circuit board to mount the Mouser FETs on, the Mouser part being
SMT and the originals being in little wire-type cases.

Anyway, we fixed the sync input but the oscs still don't osc.

- Bill
Graham Hinton
wsy wrote:

Anyway, we fixed the sync input but the oscs still don't osc.


If the oscillators didn't work you had no way of knowing whether the sync did.

MindMachine wrote:
Where did you see it? Did you have a crystal ball?


OK, it was Paris in 1978, but my point remains.
wsy
[redacted]
wsy
Graham Hinton wrote:
wsy wrote:

Anyway, we fixed the sync input but the oscs still don't osc.


If the oscillators didn't work you had no way of knowing whether the sync did.

MindMachine wrote:
Where did you see it? Did you have a crystal ball?


OK, it was Paris in 1978, but my point remains.


That particular VCS3 worked excellently after we cleaned the pin matrix, but
before he zapped it. All the knobs did their appointed tasks.

Just for fun he did "On The Run" with it in the lab after the cleanup. Sounded pretty good, actually.
Needed a touch more bass, but that was probably the speakers.

- Crash
MindMachine
Graham Hinton wrote:

MindMachine wrote:
Where did you see it? Did you have a crystal ball?


OK, it was Paris in 1978, but my point remains.


Just being a stickler for posterity. You know, facts and history and whatnot.

XXXEsq wrote:
At this point, I'd consider a Moog One and then spend the rest on a large DotCom 5U system to interface with it.


Yes.

Without knowing the OP's current hardware, I would recommend a slew of mono synths over an overpriced EMS or even a Euro modular. If I was starting from zero with $ 12,000.00 I would get a bunch of monos, sequencers, etc. and a small patchable unit to explore and grow from.

EMS are great and all, but not many have solely used an EMS to track an album from (maybe only Zorch). It all depends what the end game here is. At 12,000 it is an expensive flavor.
MikeDB
joesdeals wrote:
I am wondering if I can build something similar if not better then the EMS Synthi VCS3 by using modular eurorack components.

If a VCS3 is worth $12,000+. What if I use that money to just build a modular wall with a joystick and matrix module?

What modules do I need to buy to replicate what a EMS Synthi could do?


Well a VCS was never worth $12k, but seeing this thread I'm now sad I got rid of mine thirty years ago for a few hundred UK£ !!
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Modular Synth General Discussion  
Page 1 of 4
Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group