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Rebel Technology: Stoicheia
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules  
Author Rebel Technology: Stoicheia
mars
Announcing a new Eurorack module maker, Rebel Technology, and the open source, open hardware, algorithmic sequencer Stoicheia:

http://www.rebeltech.org/2012/06/euclidean-sequencer-published/

If you happen to be in Berlin you can find it in Schneider's shop.
In London you can visit us at Rebel HQ.

Enjoy, and have fun!
mark_snipz
Cor...that's rather tasty.

How many £££ is it going to cost?
rico loverde
sounds like an interesting module. i like the looks of it.
exper
Looks pretty cool! Any demos or videos to show?
rasseru
second page

http://www.rebeltech.org/2012/06/stoicheia-video/


looks great for modulations!
mDang
really interesting module smile
kons
Euclidean algorithms!! wow smart-guy stuff always leads to...

instant sweaty latin rhythms...
Drumdrumdrumdrum
Hmmmmmm hyper
Zenn
I like it a lot. There's nothing quite like this around...Fresh!

where to order? Can't find it at Schneiders' site
Hainbach
I called Schneiders and they only have a pre-series module in their demo rack, no stock yet. Price was amazingly affordable, too. Just drop them a mail for more infos.
numan7
woah looks very cool! and open-source hardware is a great idea. how do you pronounce the name (stow-kee-ahh, stoi-kee-uhh...), btw?

cheers
mars
I've now made a few modules available through the BlipBox website, they're £160 plus shipping:

http://blipbox.org/blog/shop/
mars
numan7 wrote:
:woah: looks very cool! and open-source hardware is a great idea. how do you pronounce the name (stow-kee-ahh, stoi-kee-uhh...), btw?


Cheers!
Yes, open-source is the way to go. We've got plenty more interesting designs coming up, analogue and digital.

The name is greek, something like stoi-kei-ah, maybe?
Try the listen link:
http://translate.google.com/#en%7Cel%7CElements
Or: call it Elements!
z3r01
That looks very interesting, the website for the product is also pretty thoughtful, with the history to the functions of the module. The demo's great too! Thanks! thumbs up

How about the HP and the depth of the module? I am guessing it's 12HP and maybe 3cm in depth? Mr. Green

If you don't mind, I will just post the demo video, from your website, here, lest anyone misses it. thumbs up

John Noble
Congratulations on a cool module! applause

.... and here it is:

http://eurorackdb.com/node/1155

Looks like it's 10hp, but confirmation would be good. Depth data would be helpful too, and I wouldn't mind a face-on photo or rendering in place of the legend line art. thumbs up
Morley
Very nice!
reppiks
John Noble wrote:
Congratulations on a cool module! applause

.... and here it is:

http://eurorackdb.com/node/1155

Looks like it's 10hp, but confirmation would be good. Depth data would be helpful too, and I wouldn't mind a face-on photo or rendering in place of the legend line art. thumbs up


It's on Specifications page: 10HP, <3cm
l e b e r
hey! i've got one of these... i played with one at the last schneiders event at Rough Trade.... and then immediately sought out the manufacturer to buy an early model off him.

I was sold immediately after messing about with it. I love it... it's simple to use and incredibly fun. You can get complex rythms out of it with ease!!!! I've got mine sat next to my Intellijel Plog, and between the two there are endless possibilities....

Simple... 3 knobs...1 for pattern, 1 for pattern loop length and 1 for pattern complexity (or not).

I keep meaning to make a video of it, but my job is taking over my life at the moment.

10hp worth of trigger goodness. thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up Rebel Tech are nice guys too.
John Noble
reppiks wrote:
John Noble wrote:
Congratulations on a cool module! applause

.... and here it is:

http://eurorackdb.com/node/1155

Looks like it's 10hp, but confirmation would be good. Depth data would be helpful too, and I wouldn't mind a face-on photo or rendering in place of the legend line art. thumbs up


It's on Specifications page: 10HP, <3cm


Weird, it doesn't show up for me. This is what's on the technical specifications page:

Power Consumption

+12v: < 10mA
+5v: < 25mA
-12v: 0mA

Impedance

Outputs: < 1.1k
Inputs: > 100k

Voltage Range

Output low: 0v
Output high: 5.1v
reppiks
Does it show if you refresh the page?
This is what it shows for me:


Dimensions

Height: 3U / 128.50mm
Width: 10HP / 50.50mm
Depth: <30mm
Weight: 135g
Power

16-pin Doepfer/Eurorack
PTC fuse and diode protected
+12v: < 10mA
+5v: < 25mA
-12v: 0mA
Impedance

Outputs: < 1.1k
Inputs: > 100k
Voltage Range

Output low: 0v
Output high: 5.1v
mOBiTh
this is ace - high on the want list!
John Noble
reppiks wrote:
Does it show if you refresh the page?


I did--twice--but no dice.

Now I see what you just posted, and the menu changed. I think the man behind the curtain is busy. Ninja
thaneco
Στοιχεία (Steeheea) , it means "elements" and its a greek word. Very cool module! thumbs up
mb123music
very cool looking!! applause

Would be interested in some demos!!! thumbs up
mark_snipz
Leber...it's a stayer then?!

hihi
bodo
l e b e r wrote:
I've got mine sat next to my Intellijel Plog, and between the two there are endless possibilities....


Hmmm, sounds very interesting indeed!
bouzoukijoe1
wow. will this be able to work with TipTop 808 modules? looks like a lot of fun.
Neo
Awesome, getting nice sounds out of that A-106 too

So this is in production? not just open source DIY?
jw112
VERY nice! applause
l e b e r
mark_snipz wrote:
Leber...it's a stayer then?!

hihi


hihi sorry mate. it's not even crossed my mind to switch it out... which usually signifies it's a good module.
Umcorps
Does it need a +5 volt line or is it OK just with +/- 12v?
clack
Hello, I helped design this module so I can help with some questions

mb123music wrote:
Would be interested in some demos!!! thumbs up


Very soon, we took the modules down to a friends studio and tried them out in a large modular. I recorded some bits and pieces HQ through a MOTU so we will put them by the beginning of next week.

bouzoukijoe1 wrote:
wow. will this be able to work with TipTop 808 modules? looks like a lot of fun.


Should do if it is designed to be triggered by 5v triggers, we tried to design it to drive more than 1 module off its output so on more fussy modules it will be ok as long as they are properly designed.

Umcorps wrote:
Does it need a +5 volt line or is it OK just with +/- 12v?


I am afraid it needs a 5v supply on the rails, although if you have a 16 pin bus but no 5v supply you can use one of these.

http://postmodular.co.uk/kilpatrick-audio-coming-soon/konverter-5v-sup ply

(this is the first thing that came up in google, others are available, if you are feeling confident you can build your own with a 7805 regulator)

Neo wrote:
Awesome, getting nice sounds out of that A-106 too
So this is in production? not just open source DIY?


It is a proper production module and will be available from distributors. the idea though is that it is completely hackable even the firmware. This means you can add extra features or even turn it into something completely different if you feel like it!

-Ben
Umcorps
Ordered yesterday - arrived today.

I could be some time.

This is a silly amount of fun.
Tombola
This looks great! was planning to remix my blinkenlights Euclidean seq into something simpler...
Funky40
hmmm, i´m just thinking why i never just recorded triggers to my CV recorder and messed with looplenghts/startpoints ?
but would ideally take one CV recorder for each triggerline.

Demo sounds cool !

edit: price please
Umcorps
Quick 'n dirty first run round the block with Drum Dokta

30ohm
this is pretty awesome, does anyone know if danjel is still working on the Pulse Tornado? Pretty similar from what I remember.
poppinger
Ugh I was planning on putting an order in when I get back from vacation, and they're already out. Any idea when or if more will be manufactured?
DougD
Will these be coming to AH or any of the NYC modular stores?
Spanningtree
DougD wrote:
Will these be coming to AH or any of the NYC modular stores?


Agreed, are you going to have a US distributor? Looks awesome!
cycles
I'm in London, but where is the "Rebel HQ"?
sync24
woo, this looks really interesting!

maybe you'd like to come down to brighton and show off some of your gear...
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=58161

cheers!
clack
poppinger wrote:
Ugh I was planning on putting an order in when I get back from vacation, and they're already out. Any idea when or if more will be manufactured?


Being manufactured now! so not too long

DougD wrote:
Will these be coming to AH or any of the NYC modular stores?


Yes, we are currently talking to a US distributor, will confirm soon

cycles wrote:
I'm in London, but where is the "Rebel HQ"?


Hoxton, if you want to meet up we are always at theese meetings http://musichackspace.org/

sync24 wrote:
woo, this looks really interesting!

maybe you'd like to come down to brighton and show off some of your gear...
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=58161

cheers!


That looks amazing! will pass the info on.
Banalism
Is this the first London built euro module?

Exciting stuff, if you need beta testing etc I am round the corner.... Look forward to seeing more.
bartleby
are there going to be kits?
lilakmonoke
very nice! ... the concept of euclidian patterns has been making the rounds for a while now and its great to see it cast in a module. i just programmed a sequencer in pure data based on euclidian patterns and revolving melody lines. you could probably do something similar with this module and a sequencer. here is what it sounds like: http://tindeck.com/listen/dwae
Socrates
looks and sound amazing, can't wait for this!
lloydcole
Socrates wrote:
looks and sound amazing, can't wait for this!


Seconded.
L
Yeahhh! this is amazing!!! thumbs up thumbs up
Arcade Sinusoid
Looks like a solid module from the AH page! Nice work! Def gonna grab one.
burnn_out!
Man small footnote, deep as Fuck, and looks super fun to play. Good work!! Very tempted.. love
Socrates
got this few days ago, gotta say that it sounds and looks absolutely stunning. perfect for the space-conscious users, with a lot of depth indeed and a solid story behind it..looking at the rebel technology website there's another 2 modules coming, really curious to hear them as well..!
causticlogic
I'm interested in this as well... The concept has definitely got me intrigued.
Looks like a nice first step into the modular realm for Rebel Tech. It makes me curious about what else they are working on.
bouzoukijoe1
Arcade Sinusoid wrote:
Looks like a solid module from the AH page! Nice work! Def gonna grab one.


speaking of build, I'm just starting to notice the details now. the vertical spacing of the knobs are TIGHT! love the all-white look and knob selection though. jacks look nice also (similar to Harvestman jacks?). also would be great if they shipped with washers. and I hope the panel metal isn't soft and too easily rashed/dented unlike some other manufacturers...
(hides)
Arcade Sinusoid
bouzoukijoe1 wrote:
Arcade Sinusoid wrote:
Looks like a solid module from the AH page! Nice work! Def gonna grab one.


speaking of build, I'm just starting to notice the details now. the vertical spacing of the knobs are TIGHT! love the all-white look and knob selection though. jacks look nice also (similar to Harvestman jacks?). also would be great if they shipped with washers. and I hope the panel metal isn't soft and too easily rashed/dented unlike some other manufacturers...
(hides)

Yeah a nicely spaced layout and definetely digging those knobs! Module build is a big factor for me. But it is the wild west! lol Would love to see ALL manufacturers bolt pots to panels! Please!
Ras Thavas
Compelling demo, and very nice design on the module, but I'd sure like to see voltage control over those functions in addition to just knobs.
bartleby
Ras Thavas wrote:
I'd sure like to see voltage control over those functions in addition to just knobs.

good point. is it possible to mod this module to allow that kind of vc?
clack
bouzoukijoe1 wrote:
....would be great if they shipped with washers. and I hope the panel metal isn't soft and too easily rashed/dented unlike some other manufacturers...
(hides)


They are shipping with washers to protect the panels, the panels are professionally printed anodized aluminum (the graphics are screen printed on during the anodizing process ) so they are pretty durable although I cannot vouch for it as I haven't got my hands on my own one yet!

bartleby wrote:
Ras Thavas wrote:
I'd sure like to see voltage control over those functions in addition to just knobs.

good point. is it possible to mod this module to allow that kind of vc?


Although not implemented, as (when designing) it is too easy to over complicate a module, it is very easy to mod yourself with a handful of components and a blank panel. You can simply solder jacks to the center point of each potentiometer with schottky or zener diodes to protect over voltage on the IC (it is 5v max.) if you want more range then 5v a couple of resistors as a voltage divider will give you more range.
Ras Thavas
How about a nice Rebel Tech designed expander, with matching graphics, that allowable range switchable VC action? I'll bet most who order the module would order the expander at the same time.
bartleby
clack wrote:
it is very easy to mod yourself with a handful of components and a blank panel.

excellent!
bouzoukijoe1
that's great to hear. I am truly appreciating all the effort different companies are putting in now to make their products feel more solid and be more durable. I noticed a lot of the new Doepfer module knobs are now firmly mounted to the faceplates (except their MIDI module which still uses some kind of glue lol). knob props go to Bubblesound, SynthTech, Pittsburgh, Livewire. ironically, the only other company I know who includes washers is FoH. but I did notice that it shares a similar grade of metal for the faceplate that dents easily if you screw in too hard, even with washers. soft aluminum I guess. never have that problem with Doepfer, Bubblesound, Pittsburgh, Livewire.

build quality aside, I wonder if the new wave of Euclidean modules will start to demand more accuracy from other modules that have to interact with it because they have to divide evenly at any given clock speed? ESPECIALLY as you modulate. does anyone know if there are any known digital issues and if any particular "slow" chips will have any bearing on this, as far as keeping up with triggers accurately? especially sequencing equipment! for example, which existing modules would one most likely use the Stoicheia with? clock dividers, multipliers, switches, other sequencers? if there are any concerns (and only if), it would be great if the community could develop a list of modules that are known to work really well with the Stoicheia (no dissing other modules though). but I may be jumping the gun. hihi really excited about this module, as a heavy user of other sequencing/rhythm modules like RCD, SCM, PEG, Modulation Orgy, uStep, Pressure Points.

add:
re-reading the Euclidean rhythm stuff and documentation and I'm assuming there isn't voltage control of the step (division) and fill parameters, only the trigger/clock in, so I guess that's two less sync variables to worry about? Mr. Green (until it's time for the expander)
HeWhoWantsJeans
Build Quality Response / Rant Time:
bouzoukijoe1 wrote:
I noticed a lot of the new Doepfer module knobs are now firmly mounted to the faceplates (except their MIDI module which still uses some kind of glue lol).

Ugh - I know. Every time I unplug or plug-in to the MIDI jacks on my A-190-MCV I hate watching the female jack jiggle a bit. I should probably see if there is a feasible way to drill through the faceplate, through the MIDI jack and just nut and bolt it right to the panel.

bouzoukijoe1 wrote:

the only other company I know who includes washers is FoH. but I did notice that it shares a similar grade of metal for the faceplate that dents easily if you screw in too hard, even with washers. soft aluminum I guess.

Damn son - are you screwing in your modules with a power-tool? Maybe a pneumatic driver? I've got nearly a whole line of f(h) modules and none of them, even without washers, have any 'denting'.

Seriously - what length of a screw are you using? I'm curious because if it's too short - I'd recommend extending to the next possible size up to relieve some of the stress on the faceplates.
bouzoukijoe1
nah son, I used to think that people who dented their modules were crazy too until I started noticing that it was actually doing more than rashing on some of my modules after I moved it about 4 times or so. there are a couple of manufacturers who use a softer grade of metal and it doesn't happen on Doepfer, Bubblesound, Pittsburgh, Livewire, 4ms, Make Noise, SSL, Harvestman. ever since then I've tried to screw in like a little fairy. I use offical Monorocket screws on the sliding rails of the Monorocket case so I know it's not the screw length. I just tighten it enough to make sure that jiggling around while travelling doesn't cause problems, with enough torque as on typical gear 19" gear I've owned through the years. I just like a nice manly torque I guess. haha. but you really just have to screw like a little fairy with a couple of these brands. I'm no metallurgist but I'm almost sure it's soft aluminum.
bartleby
clack wrote:
it is very easy to mod yourself with a handful of components and a blank panel. You can simply solder jacks to the center point of each potentiometer with schottky or zener diodes to protect over voltage on the IC (it is 5v max.)

just thinking: would it also be possible to mod it in such a way that when there is something plugged into one of the cv-in sockets on the diy expander, the external cv completely replaces the internal cv and the module's pots serve as attenuators for the external cv?
clack
bartleby wrote:
clack wrote:
it is very easy to mod yourself with a handful of components and a blank panel. You can simply solder jacks to the center point of each potentiometer with schottky or zener diodes to protect over voltage on the IC (it is 5v max.)

just thinking: would it also be possible to mod it in such a way that when there is something plugged into one of the cv-in sockets on the diy expander, the external cv completely replaces the internal cv and the module's pots serve as attenuators for the external cv?


Yep although, you will have to lift one leg (cut it or pull it out) on the potentiometer, wire that to a switched output of a jack and attach the switched end to +5 so a bit more work and a bit of a kludge. Also note that it wont see -ve voltages, of course I can provide info on all this later (including how to allow -ve voltages) on the website when I have one of the modules!

-Ben
bartleby
clack wrote:
you will have to lift one leg (cut it or pull it out) on the potentiometer, wire that to a switched output of a jack and attach the switched end to +5

that's how i thought it might work - good to have it confirmed by someone more competent. smile
clack wrote:
I can provide info on all this later (including how to allow -ve voltages) on the website when I have one of the modules!

cool, thanks!
Liddlepud
I just picked one of these up from their workshop. Really nice guys and there's going to be an expander providing CV control. They also had the prototype of their next module which'll be a clock divider which looks interesting.

The only down side is that I won't be able to put it in the rack and have a play until Saturday waah
a100user
Any idea when the next batch will become available?
bartleby
Liddlepud wrote:
there's going to be an expander providing CV control.

that's excellent news! so they are adding a breakout connector to the main module's pcb for a no-solder expander?
will the zener/schottky protection against negative or high voltages be part of the main pcb or of the expander? i suppose it would make more sense to incorporate it into the main module...

as for my earlier question about how a cv expansion might be implemented:
bartleby wrote:
clack wrote:
it is very easy to mod yourself with a handful of components and a blank panel. You can simply solder jacks to the center point of each potentiometer with schottky or zener diodes to protect over voltage on the IC (it is 5v max.)

just thinking: would it also be possible to mod it in such a way that when there is something plugged into one of the cv-in sockets on the diy expander, the external cv completely replaces the internal cv and the module's pots serve as attenuators for the external cv?

i think i've changed my mind about how useful it would be to use the module's pots as attenuators for external cv. i think clack's original suggestion is actually better, because that way you can still use the pots to set the unmodulated value and then just add external cv to that. of course then you still need a way of attenuating your external cv, but you can use a uatt or a183-1/2 for that...
Liddlepud
a100user wrote:
Any idea when the next batch will become available?


When I eagerly handed over the grubby soiled notes they said that now they'd be able to make some more modules. Your best bet is to send them an email via their website.

bartleby wrote:
so they are adding a breakout connector to the main module's pcb for a no-solder expander?


I got in late last night so didn't have time to fully inspect the module but I'm sure there were pins on the back of the PCB for additional connections other than power.
mars
We are working hard here at Rebel HQ this weekend to fill orders from distributors. With any luck your local outlet will be stocked next week!

The next module Logos is progressing nicely:
it's a dual function VC clock divider and delay, with a combined output that lets you do swing and shuffle rhythms. Yeah, voltage controlled swing!

As for V controlling Stoicheia, we still haven't decided whether to make an expander or a stand-alone VC module. But we're working on it.

Many thanks for the kind words and interest, y'all rock.
logicgate
Yesterday I was ready to buy it, but for my disappointment I discovered they were sold out!!! woah


Guess I´m gonna have to suffer a bit more and wait heh...
kuxaan-sum
mars wrote:
We are working hard here at Rebel HQ this weekend to fill orders from distributors. With any luck your local outlet will be stocked next week!

The next module Logos is progressing nicely:
it's a dual function VC clock divider and delay, with a combined output that lets you do swing and shuffle rhythms. Yeah, voltage controlled swing!


It's motherfucking bacon yo
Socrates
can't wait...!
Liddlepud
Used this module a lot this afternoon during a jam with fellow wigglers Pipwillams and Sixteen. It's brilliant for adding variation to live percussive sequences and we also had it controlling the X&Y inputs of 2 different Renes.
Junk Rhythm
Any chance this module will be available as a DIY kit in the future? Hell, even a kit that is just the PCB and panel would rock too.
HeWhoWantsJeans
I just realized what this does.

TAKE MY MONEY.
l e b e r
I just want to say that 'mars' here (one of the men behind this module) is an extremely nice guy and has continually shown me huge amount of generosity. I'm so impressed with these guys and love the fact that there's finally a local manufacturer in this Euro game. I love being able to pop into their HQ.

Last night mars helped me troubleshoot a problem with my case.... even while he had plenty his own work to be getting on with, and when the issue was to do with a different manufacturer.

Rest assured to anyone buying this module that not only are you getting a fantastic module but you're getting it from people who really care and are genuinely nice and willing to help.... i experienced the best 'tech' support last night. thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up

Very very happy that i met these guys. we're not worthy
earlykooka
I was just about to pre-order this, but that was on the basis of them ( or 'you' if you are reading this) going to do an expander ( cos -l i should imagine like most people - I want the CV control )
However if this might not happen, ( as per that last post) and iinstead there might be a whole different module with CV control, then I would want to wait for that.

I would (very) respectfully suggest that you decide one way or the other ASAP, as if not, someone not wanting to buy what might end up an 'orphaned" module ( a bit melodramatic I know) ... might end up waiting till you do ...

Super, super module. can't wait ... So ...
djthopa
Wow! This looks amazing! Should be in stock soon smile
dephonator
mars wrote:
As for V controlling Stoicheia, we still haven't decided whether to make an expander or a stand-alone VC module. But we're working on it.


I have preordered one at Schneiders without knowing of those upgrade plans. I think it would be wise to cancel my order until RT have made their decision.

But why not make an expander indeed, so people who already have the module wouldn't be left behind?
earlykooka
dephonator wrote:
mars wrote:
As for V controlling Stoicheia, we still haven't decided whether to make an expander or a stand-alone VC module. But we're working on it.


I have preordered one at Schneiders without knowing of those upgrade plans. I think it would be wise to cancel my order until RT have made their decision.

But why not make an expander indeed, so people who already have the module wouldn't be left behind?


I couldn't agree more. I did the same thing, put my SB pre-order on hold until I know what is what. It would be very disappointing to jump on the no-CV version - however exciting and intriguing it is - and then to find out a few days later that there will be no expander, but a seperate ' with CV' model. Especially given that having CV control over the three ( well 6 actually) knobs would really take it another whole level.

I contacted the RebelTech people aboutvthis directly via their website, but haven't heard anything back yet.
Hoping theire is something soon, because I'm really looking forward to buying this.
logicgate
Looks like I´m putting my order on hold as well
mars
To expand or not to expand!

Stoicheia is the first in a series of three -

the next module we're bringing out features vc divider, delay, counter and shuffle/swing. It will be called Logos.

Combining Stoicheia with Logos gives you vc rhythmic patterns, although technically they are not vc euclidean sequences.

A single sequence, vc version of Stoicheia is on the drawing board.
In my view, this would be a complement to the dual version we have out now, not a replacement.

Alternatively an expander could be made in various ways -
by patching in to the analog inputs as described by clack,
or by using the serial interface on the back of the board.

Whether we go down one route or the other, or neither, I am not yet sure - sorry!
l e b e r
the first thing i mentioned to mars after i received this module was to ask about the possibility of cv control. seemed like an obvious request....

...however.... having used it for a while it's apparent cv control isn't so important. the beauty of this module is it's simplicity. 3 knobs... turn one slightly and you get a new pattern. easy. because it's so simple i want to be hands on with it, so the lack of cv control doesn't bother me in the slightest. it encourages tweaking on the fly, which, for trigger/gate pattern performance, is hugely satisfying.

i'd say stick to the idea of a bringing out a single channel cv controlled version to accompany this existing module. the appeal of this current version are the dual channels and ease of creating complex patterns. If you bring out a single channel cv controllable version, i'd want it to sit next to my current one...not replace it.
earlykooka
Hi Mars
If you were to start with the Stoicheia and at least commit to doing an expander for it ... at some point, then those of us wanting CV control ( and there are three of us just in the last three posts ;-) would buy it now ,,, and nothing would stop you making a "SuperStoicheia" at some later point.

... wheras if you bring the Stoicheia out with plans to to the "SuprStoicheia" later, but no expander, then for sure many ( most ?) people are going to hold off for the CV model ...

... and if you put the decision on hold, people who really want the CV option might very likely wait till you decide ...

If that sounds a bit pushy, then I'm sorry ... I'm really just trying to help ... but that is the way I see it.
Obviously you have to take the time necessary to think it through ...

Congratulations on the module, all the best, and let us know ASAP ! ;-)
earlykooka
l e b e r wrote:

...however.... having used it for a while it's apparent cv control isn't so important. the beauty of this module is it's simplicity. 3 knobs... turn one slightly and you get a new pattern. easy. because it's so simple i want to be hands on with it, so the lack of cv control doesn't bother me in the slightest.


I hear you, but different people work in different ways, and the same person might work in different ways at different times ... sometimes I too want to improvise hands on, but sometimes I might also want to set up complex evolving patterns ... My feeling is that with CV control over the parameters from LFOs or even more so from a PEG or a sequencer that is being clocked from the Stoeichia ... or not ... This is potentially generative rhythm heaven ... And if you DID have an expander, nothing is stopping you getting down and dirty with da wiggling.
For me it is win/win.
And the options opened up by CV control are SO win that IMNSHO it would be really a shame not to have them.
earlykooka
Sorry, double post
Umcorps
l e b e r wrote:
having used it for a while it's apparent cv control isn't so important. the beauty of this module is it's simplicity. 3 knobs... turn one slightly and you get a new pattern. easy. because it's so simple i want to be hands on with it, so the lack of cv control doesn't bother me in the slightest. it encourages tweaking on the fly, which, for trigger/gate pattern performance, is hugely satisfying.


I agree!

Every single word.

Especially the P(erformance) word. Because that is what this module is all about.
earlykooka
Umcorps wrote:
l e b e r wrote:
having used it for a while it's apparent cv control isn't so important. the beauty of this module is it's simplicity. 3 knobs... turn one slightly and you get a new pattern. easy. because it's so simple i want to be hands on with it, so the lack of cv control doesn't bother me in the slightest. it encourages tweaking on the fly, which, for trigger/gate pattern performance, is hugely satisfying.


I agree!

Every single word.

Especially the P(erformance) word. Because that is what this module is all about.


With all due respect, that might be what the module is all about for you, but just as I wouldn't want to deny you (or myself) all that hands on wiggling pleasure ;-) ... i'm sure that you wouldn't want to deny those of us interested in generative patches, complex mutating rhythms etc all our CV fun !

Let a thousand flowers bloom y'all ...
l e b e r
i'm not suggesting denying anything.

understood. modules/modular is designed for having options and letting the user decided what to do with them. stating the obvious.

all i'm saying is that one version of this module exists. it's fantastic. it's hands on. yes i originally wanted cv control on it, but i've discovered i don't care that it doesn't have cv control included. it's hand's on, but it's also set/forget and occasionally tweak in a complex modulating patch... so it already doesn't have to be just about performance...although it excels at live funtimes.

all i'm saying is that i think rebel tech should bring out a cv controllable version to exist with this current module. i think adding an expander to this one isn't space friendly... you start having to factor in whether you want a module xxxHP wide.
earlykooka
-> leber
that was adressed to umcorps, not directly to you

Yeah, I hear you on the space issues.
Lets face it, if they had come straight out with a CV controlled model, then noone would be asking for an expander, we would all just be together applauding. Obviously having to buy two modules instead of the one you want isn't anyones ideal, not for HP nor for price.
But, for whatever reasons, they didn't, and Mars told us that they were currently weighing up the expander or other module options.

So -of course- people are going to ideally want to know about that before deciding what to do, as evidenced by several people saying they were considering putting their pre-order on hold.

So the bottom line is, however much you or umcorps might 'not care' because 'its all about performance", clearly it IS important for many people, including, apparently Mars himself ...

Once again ... A thousand flowers ...
l e b e r
thumbs up no problem.

yes. again. i can fully understand that other options are important to other people regardless of how i or umcorps or anyone else might use the current module. of course. flowers and all that.

i'm not a big fan of expanders though. but i'm aware sometimes they'e helpful. i'd rather see a sister module that is one channel but with CV control...making it smaller than a dual channel CV controlled version and closer to the size of a potential expander. that way you can have both modules, expanding your control options, and also your gate outs (you'd now have 3 channels, one of which cv'd).... but horses for courses. i'm not right. you're not right. rebel tech can do what they like. Om

you're mistaking mine and umcorps enjoyment of this current module for an advocation to not include CV. i'm merely reporting that the existing module is very fun as is. correct, there would be more fun with CV... but it's great, and i welcome whatever rebel tech decided to do next. i personally don't believe people need to hold off on their orders for the exisitng module, as fun awaits... but i'm not suggesting people should do what i say. but that would be nice as the world would then revolve around me.
earlykooka
;-)

I agree with almost everything you say there, except that I really never thought that you were an actively anti-CV advocate ;-)
Your three channel soultion looks good to me, though of course I would prefer all three channels to be under CV control lol

Anyway, i'm sure we agree on very much more than we disagree on so all the best to you sir.
I've been sitting here all fucking day waiting for fucking FedEx to deliver me a package containing an Echophon and a PEG that has been 'in the truck' since 9.23 this morning and it is now becoming clear that they aren't going to come, so that means Monday and that means very frustrating Guinness ftw! Guinness ftw!
I wish you well.
dephonator
l e b e r wrote:
thumbs upi'm not a big fan of expanders though. but i'm aware sometimes they'e helpful. i'd rather see a sister module that is one channel but with CV control...making it smaller than a dual channel CV controlled version and closer to the size of a potential expander. that way you can have both modules, expanding your control options, and also your gate outs (you'd now have 3 channels, one of which cv'd)....


Well... I like expanders a lot:-) I don't think the sister module will be much smaller then the expander... I still think this would be the better solution since you have TWO cv-able channels at a lower cost (no?), but anyway... I must say when testing the module I had some variation going on using an LFO into the center jack and changing it's freq, didn't think about more cv options for the moment... but if more cv control is possible, let's have it - for ALL channels;-)
BTByrd
For the record, I'm waiting to see what happens with this expander. I'd been waiting on a Pulse Tornado, but would totally pick up one of these now if I knew there was a CV expander in the pipes.
Paranormal Patroler
Is this available at Schneiders? I'm totally interested and to hell with the expander sexpander stuff! As long as you keep on using greek typeface I'm buyin'
logicgate
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
As long as you keep on using greek typeface I'm buyin'


+1 lol
Paranormal Patroler
Will it make everything sounds like Xenakis ? applause
pas
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
Will it make everything sounds like Xenakis ? applause


hahaha...
Paranormal Patroler
And since it's performance oriented as Umcorps wrote earlier people will definitely be saying at my shows: "It all sounds Greek to me" seriously, i just don't get it






(I'm shutting up now)
dephonator
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
Will it make everything sounds like Xenakis ? applause


Yes. But only with the expander hihi And then get a dozen of Stoicheas (expanded of cause) and a handful of sister modules by the name of Stochastica thumbs up
Paranormal Patroler
I was actually thinking that one would need at least 9U of Logic modules to start making stochastic modular music. hmmm.....
dephonator
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
I was actually thinking that one would need at least 9U of Logic modules to start making stochastic modular music. hmmm.....


I was joking of cause... but seriously, do you think proper stochastic music can be done with modulars at all - i mean, without a computer?

Very interesting topic... Maybe this would be worth a new thread?
Paranormal Patroler
dephonator wrote:
I was joking of cause... but seriously, do you think proper stochastic music can be done with modulars at all - i mean, without a computer?

Very interesting topic... Maybe this would be worth a new thread?


I did get the joke, but the subject is indeed interesting. Maybe I should refresh my memory on Xenakis's books. It might be possible but you'd certainly need lots of logic, that's for sure.
dephonator
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
Maybe I should refresh my memory on Xenakis's books.


I have 'Formalized Music' here. Scanned through it a couple of times but most of it is just a tad too mathematical for me hmmm.....

hihi
Paranormal Patroler
Math is my breakfast, I'll give it a go.
headband
Does anyone know if there is one of these on hand at Schneidersbuero?? Would love to play with it in the flesh, albeit the fact I'm pretty much already sold on this module screaming goo yo
Norman_Phay
Junk Rhythm wrote:
Any chance this module will be available as a DIY kit in the future?


Yeah I'd be interested in a kit of this as well, esp if it works off 15V
pavementsands
re: Formalised music (apologies for continuing the sidetrack)

I'm a huge Xenakis nerd and I've spent a lot of time with Formalised Music. I don't think it's the maths that's the problem - it's just a horribly written book! Having read a fair few of his essays outside of FM, his style is more or less always reasonably opaque - but on the whole readable.

For whatever reason whether its the translation or whatever else, in parts of FM, that opaqueness reaches its pinaccle. The actual ideas, when you get down to them, aren't generally all that difficult, but their expression makes it one of the most needlessly difficult books I've read.
Paranormal Patroler
pavementsands wrote:
re: Formalised music (apologies for continuing the sidetrack)

I'm a huge Xenakis nerd and I've spent a lot of time with Formalised Music. I don't think it's the maths that's the problem - it's just a horribly written book! Having read a fair few of his essays outside of FM, his style is more or less always reasonably opaque - but on the whole readable.

For whatever reason whether its the translation or whatever else, in parts of FM, that opaqueness reaches its pinaccle. The actual ideas, when you get down to them, aren't generally all that difficult, but their expression makes it one of the most needlessly difficult books I've read.


Is it a translation from French or from Greek? Xenakis was an interesting personality as well as an interesting musical thinker, but an astounding writer and theoretician he was most certainly not.

Thankfully there are tons of books written on Xenakis's work nowadays so it's more than easy to find what you're looking for written by some other person in a clear way.

I do agree on the ideas not being all that difficult. But most people tend to be phased by the simple fact that it has to do with math. Apart from that, what with Xenakis being Greek, I do find that his opaqueness was part of his understanding of the difficulty most people have when tackling such subjects as well as his need to keep things difficult so as to make them look serious and formal.

Academics. Meh
earlykooka
-> Dephonator
Actually, joking -and Xenakis- aside, you got me thinking there ... it seems to me that even 2x ( preferably Expanded ;-) ) Stoeichias feeding back into each other would give some really extremely complex rhythmic patterns ... though I would think you'd need to have some sort of clock divider in the loop too to bring the timebase back to something reasonable every once in a while or else you'd tend to get some sort of an infinite fractal accelarando ( which maybe could be good for a while too !)

Actually one CV controlled one and one straight one would probably easier to keep just the right side of chaos, because obviously the effect of the CV on one would already effect the other one ...

That might even be enough of a reason for me to, ( despite my pro-expander militancy ;-) ) get one of the current model anyway, while waiting for RebTech to decide whether to go for the expander/and or another CV'd module ...

Still be good if you rebels made up your minds ASAP though ;-)
pavementsands
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
pavementsands wrote:
re: Formalised music (apologies for continuing the sidetrack)

I'm a huge Xenakis nerd and I've spent a lot of time with Formalised Music. I don't think it's the maths that's the problem - it's just a horribly written book! Having read a fair few of his essays outside of FM, his style is more or less always reasonably opaque - but on the whole readable.

For whatever reason whether its the translation or whatever else, in parts of FM, that opaqueness reaches its pinaccle. The actual ideas, when you get down to them, aren't generally all that difficult, but their expression makes it one of the most needlessly difficult books I've read.


Is it a translation from French or from Greek? Xenakis was an interesting personality as well as an interesting musical thinker, but an astounding writer and theoretician he was most certainly not.

Thankfully there are tons of books written on Xenakis's work nowadays so it's more than easy to find what you're looking for written by some other person in a clear way.

I do agree on the ideas not being all that difficult. But most people tend to be phased by the simple fact that it has to do with math. Apart from that, what with Xenakis being Greek, I do find that his opaqueness was part of his understanding of the difficulty most people have when tackling such subjects as well as his need to keep things difficult so as to make them look serious and formal.

Academics. Meh


Don't want to drag this too far off topic, but I think he's actually a pretty fantastic theoretician. He's very rigorous compared to almost any other composer I can think of. (read some Stockhausen essays! Don't!). I don't think the importance of his criticism of serialism and the new direction that sparked gets the due it deserves in mainstream academia (for those of you who give a toss about that kind of thing - I only do rarely).
By its nature though - a compositional paradicm based on macro control over large numbers of events based processes - it's going to be hard (and expensive!) to apply that to modular synthesis smile (and thats before you get to his critique of fourier-centric synthesis methods).
But blah . Blah blah. Blah. smile

Formalised Music was written in French - not his first language obviously, and I guess that goes some way to explain it. Allegedly (though I don't read french so can't confirm) the translation is horrible too though.

To bring this back to topic, one of Xenakis' signature moves, for a period at least, was to superimpose multiple rythmic "sieves" to get complexity. His rhythmic "sieves" have a huge overlap with the patterns this thing will produce. Not really "stochastic", but a couple of these could put you in that kind of Xenakis territory I reckon.

(it looks a lovely module - I've been playing with Euclid rhythms in MAX and they're a lot of fun - the idea of that in a compact tweakable package with the features you've added would be pretty enticing if (I had any money!)
dephonator
headband wrote:
Does anyone know if there is one of these on hand at Schneidersbuero?? Would love to play with it in the flesh, albeit the fact I'm pretty much already sold on this module screaming goo yo


Just got a mail from Tom informing me that the Stoi has arrived...
dephonator
pavementsands wrote:
To bring this back to topic, one of Xenakis' signature moves, for a period at least, was to superimpose multiple rythmic "sieves" to get complexity. His rhythmic "sieves" have a huge overlap with the patterns this thing will produce. Not really "stochastic", but a couple of these could put you in that kind of Xenakis territory I reckon.


That's what my intuition was telling me when I heard about this module:-) I will practice some trial and error methods nobody has ever used before (haha) and we will see:hihi: Maybe using it together with RCD, SCM, TT... and Plog, etc... Seriously: i'm a huge Xenakis admirer... I'm planning a tribute track...
Paranormal Patroler
pavementsands wrote:
Don't want to drag this too far off topic, but I think he's actually a pretty fantastic theoretician.


Oh don't get me wrong, I do admire most of his work (not everything he has done is that good really). But as a true artist most of his work method stayed in his head. Do not forget that Xenakis never had the need (monetary or otherwise) to teach. Reading Stravinsky's Musical Poetry you can tell that one composer can theorize and then analyze his ideas whereas the other cannot.

And let me quote Leon Harkleroad's book The Math Behind the Music, page 90 on Xenakis: "Unfortunately his writings about the mathematical aspects of his music tend to obscure, rather than clarify his methods". Maybe I should've used the word teacher instead of theoretician? It's just that the word being Greek has another connotation entirely.

pavementsands wrote:
By its nature though - a compositional paradicm based on macro control over large numbers of events based processes - it's going to be hard (and expensive!) to apply that to modular synthesis smile


I have to disagree on this. Right from the bat it's nearly impossible to control nuances in a full fledged modular system. If the system is build up thus the sound is more controlled as a whole, a gesture. I'd love to discuss this further in a private message or on another thread. We've derailed this one long enough.

I do agree the Euclidean rhythms is one thing Xenakis worked on and it might give interesting results working with this module.

It's not like there are any stohastic modules out there!
Audio Dependent
Here are some quick jams/demos I have made with the Stoicheia at the heart of the patch:







Not the best visually and the camera kept cutting out so they're a bit short, but hopefully gives you an idea of the capabilities of this unique module.
Audio Dependent
Audio Dependent wrote:
Here are some quick jams/demos I have made with the Stoicheia at the heart of the patch:

[video]https://vimeo.com/46020009[/video]

[video]https://vimeo.com/46002331[/video]

[video]https://vimeo.com/46002332[/video]

Not the best visually and the camera kept cutting out so they're a bit short, but hopefully gives you an idea of the capabilities of this unique module.


err - cant figure out how to embed these - anyone?
dualmono
Great videos!
Thanks for sharing.
Guinness ftw!
dualmono
Audio Dependent wrote:
Audio Dependent wrote:
Here are some quick jams/demos I have made with the Stoicheia at the heart of the patch:

[video]https://vimeo.com/46020009[/video]

[video]https://vimeo.com/46002331[/video]

[video]https://vimeo.com/46002332[/video]

Not the best visually and the camera kept cutting out so they're a bit short, but hopefully gives you an idea of the capabilities of this unique module.


err - cant figure out how to embed these - anyone?



Hmm, try taking the s of https...
Or are you posting this from an iOS device via TouchBB?
Audio Dependent
dualmono wrote:
Audio Dependent wrote:
Audio Dependent wrote:
Here are some quick jams/demos I have made with the Stoicheia at the heart of the patch:

[video]https://vimeo.com/46020009[/video]

[video]https://vimeo.com/46002331[/video]

[video]https://vimeo.com/46002332[/video]

Not the best visually and the camera kept cutting out so they're a bit short, but hopefully gives you an idea of the capabilities of this unique module.


err - cant figure out how to embed these - anyone?



Hmm, try taking the s of https...
Or are you posting this from an iOS device via TouchBB?


ah yes thats it! Thank you smile
dualmono
Sure!
nanners
logicgate
cool videos! thumbs up

So, basically, stoicheia has 3 trigger outputs, and by the looks of you video, it's triggering 3 different EG's?
Audio Dependent
logicgate wrote:
cool videos! thumbs up

So, basically, stoicheia has 3 trigger outputs, and by the looks of you video, it's triggering 3 different EG's?


No it has 2 trigger outs. I am using stackables on the outs to split them. The 2 outer jacks are inputs/outputs for a clock - its setup like a multiple so either can be an in or an out, but it only responds to one clock. There is also a reset input, and a switch which lets you chain the sequences together so it plays one then the other out of both outs.

I have a skiff in front of the 6u which has an RCD in it which is providing the 4/4 kick in one of them in the other 2 the SQ8's gate out is triggering the kick.

I lost my patch notes but here's a basic overview from vimeo:

Rebel technologies Stoicheia is receiving a clock from the through of 4ms RCD and is being multiplied off to trigger input on both channels of A156 quantiser and both strike inputs on the optomix. The clock is then fed the SQ8 with the CV out going to the quantiser. One half of the optomix is being fed an input from the uFOLD which has both Dixies going into it and the E350 is going into the other. A simple 4/4 kick from the maths and one half of the Korgo is being clocked from the divide by 4 of the RCD.
synaptech
Junk Rhythm wrote:
Any chance this module will be available as a DIY kit in the future? Hell, even a kit that is just the PCB and panel would rock too.

Count me in for a pcb/panel or two if they're made available! Love the rhythms! woah
mig27
+2!
miraclehex
I've been playing around with the Stoicheia for a week or so, and it's awesome!

I do have a question though: what's up with the knob increments/markings?


As far as I understand it, from the online documentation, they all have 32 increments (16 + 16), but there are only 24 "marks" on the dial (6 "big" increments either side, divided in half with "small" marks) which makes it sort of inaccurate to use.

The top knob, RESET POINT, I think is 1 at 12 o'clock, -16 at CCW, and +16 at CW (although maybe this is actually -8 to +8, now that I think about it...)

The middle knob, LENGTH, goes from 8 steps at 12 o'clock, to 1 at CCW, to 16 at CW (starting at 0 would be more symmetrical, but I don't think you can have no outputs at all in a sequence. Maybe that's wrong, I should be writing this with it in front of me!)

and same with the bottom knob, FILLS.

Since these are all "digital" controls (there are no "half" beats), I find myself just using it as a rough probability guide, rather than being able precisely dial anything in... which suits my lazy style of music-making/lack of musical training or skill.

I think the faceplate is symmetrical, so I might flip it and put my own markings on the back, if I can find out what the values actually are.

Don't get me wrong, I love this thing: but I think PEG-style knobs & markings would've made it extra awesome
SunSpots
I really want 2 of these... one will do. they are in stock at AH smile think of the possibilities!
miraclehex
When I wrote "PEG-style", I meant like on the "Ping Div/Mult" knob = this would translate perfectly!

http://www.4mspedals.com/peg/promophotos/PEG-front.jpg
jimmy_p
Totally agree on the knob markings. I wonder if it would be possible to replace the pots for ones that click into set positions instead of freely rotating?
It would be nice to be able to dial in an exact pattern when you know what you want
Paranormal Patroler
jimmy_p wrote:
Totally agree on the knob markings. I wonder if it would be possible to replace the pots for ones that click into set positions instead of freely rotating?
It would be nice to be able to dial in an exact pattern when you know what you want


Possibly, but where is the playability in that? ~click click click~
SunSpots
ordered non-cv version. I can see the value in having a non cv version. if all goes well I'll get the cv version when it comes out. SlayerBadger!
???
Oups!
Junk Rhythm
SunSpots wrote:
ordered non-cv version. I can see the value in having a non cv version. if all goes well I'll get the cv version when it comes out. SlayerBadger!


I with you on that. I finally burned the firmware for three of them and finished building them. Plugged them into some of the TTA 808 drum modules. Instant techno grooves. Lot's of fun just spinning the knobs and just jamming with them. CV would be awesome but these modules are really fun just performing with them.
???
Ok I don't understand how clock inputs are processed. First, I just noticed that if one channel receive a clock, the other "unused" channel actually output the clock. Yeah I don't get how clock inputs are integrated. They are obviously not independent. Both channels seem to respond to both clock and adding a more random clock on a channel just brings some groove to the overall pattern while still keeping a steady timed or sync output on a channel and a random but sometime on beat on the other channel. Whoa... I am right?

Or is it more simple. Both clock inputs are integrated and both channels respond to the "merged" clocks? Otherwise, can someone explain that for me?
negativspace
I think the second clock jack is supposed to be a pass-through rather than an additional input - meaning you can take your clock pulse from there to other modules. Free mult. thumbs up

Please correct me if I'm missing something!
lloydcole
negativspace wrote:
I think the second clock jack is supposed to be a pass-through rather than an additional input - meaning you can take your clock pulse from there to other modules. Free mult. thumbs up

Please correct me if I'm missing something!


This is correct. If not exactly self explanatory...
Junk Rhythm
lloydcole wrote:
negativspace wrote:
I think the second clock jack is supposed to be a pass-through rather than an additional input - meaning you can take your clock pulse from there to other modules. Free mult. thumbs up

Please correct me if I'm missing something!


This is correct. If not exactly self explanatory...


I'll confirm that as well. Outside jack on the left (Channel 1) is clock in. Outside jack on the right (Channel 2) is clock out/through. The module uses one clock to control both channels.
meatbeatz
I can also confirm the above. That's why I ended up buying 2 so I could run at different clock rates. Super fun and funky. 8_)
Paranormal Patroler
Junk Rhythm wrote:
I'll confirm that as well. Outside jack on the left (Channel 1) is clock in. Outside jack on the right (Channel 2) is clock out/through. The module uses one clock to control both channels.


Any of those channels can work as an input and you can use the other one as a mult. It only receives on clock input and earlier in this thread the manufacturers said it is unwise to input two clocks. I do find the mult to be most useful and the module self explanatory and totally worth it.
Steffe
I use the Stoicheia in almost all of my patches. It's always there adding rhythmic pulses and accents.
jnlkrt
can anyone give me a detailed descriptive panel rundown? the knobs are explained well on the website, but the jacks?
???
It would be better if they could run at different rates. It's fun anyway and a great module. What does "unwise" means? Can I damage the modules by sending the stoicheia 2 clock inputs?
Paranormal Patroler
??? wrote:
It would be better if they could run at different rates. It's fun anyway and a great module. What does "unwise" means? Can I damage the modules by sending the stoicheia 2 clock inputs?


I do think so. I'm certain there was a post from the designers either earlier on this thread or some other Stoicheia related one that cautioned against such practices. I was the one being cautioned so that's why I recall; don't take my word for it though, search.
negativspace
No, the issue with plugging in 2 clocks is that the jacks are most likely passively multed - which means in doing so you're shorting the two outputs of the clock modules together. That can cause problems if said clock modules are not protected. (Most are; but it's good practice not to connect outs to outs.)
Paranormal Patroler
negativspace wrote:
No, the issue with plugging in 2 clocks is that the jacks are most likely passively multed - which means in doing so you're shorting the two outputs of the clock modules together. That can cause problems if said clock modules are not protected. (Most are; but it's good practice not to connect outs to outs.)


Well the opinions have been divided on this specific issue, not that I'm saying you're wrong or anything. You're more of an expert than I'll ever be, but I have to point out that I've run into many threads with contradictory statements filled with electronic circuitry facts regarding the use of mults as mixers. Recently the tide seems to be turning into the "not much of an issue" side.

In any case, I have used both the inputs with different clocks with no problems once but having been warned by the manufacturers to not do it I have since stopped. Plug your sockets responsibly kids.
negativspace
It generally isn't much of an issue, but there was a thread here recently where someone made the magic smoke by plugging an out to an out... (A 5U forum post maybe? Within the last few weeks.)

Point is it does happen, at least slightly more often than never. It's a good habit not to mix with mults unless you know what you're doing.
???
Well it turns out feeding 2 clock to the stoicheia produced really interesting rythmic patterns. I'll stop doing this however, and I was lucky not to damage the module. I'm guilty of not reading this entire tread, but this should be more explicitly mentioned somewhere on their site, just in case.
Paranormal Patroler
??? wrote:
Well it turns out feeding 2 clock to the stoicheia produced really interesting rythmic patterns. I'll stop doing this however, and I was lucky not to damage the module. I'm guilty of not reading this entire tread, but this should be more explicitly mentioned somewhere on their site, just in case.


Can't find the damn post. very frustrating


EDIT

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=67287&start=all&post days=0&postorder=asc

scroll down to the big schematic by clack
???
I can't read schematics, but I guess I'm lucky not to have fried mine. Thanks for the info. It's strange that it works so well with 2 clock inputs and that, even if people think the module is self explanatory, there is not much info about it's functions (at least for the inputs). Both clock input have an arrow that point to towards the middle LED which respond to clock so I thought there were just "integrated/merged".
jnlkrt
jnlkrt wrote:
can anyone give me a detailed descriptive panel rundown? the knobs are explained well on the website, but the jacks?


anyone? thumbs up
muncky
Just got one of these babies today - plays dreamy with Envelators in delayed cycling mode applause Lots of fun to be had. Knobbage is a little tight tho (resisting the urge to immediately Davify...)
Paranormal Patroler
jnlkrt wrote:
jnlkrt wrote:
can anyone give me a detailed descriptive panel rundown? the knobs are explained well on the website, but the jacks?


anyone? thumbs up


Upper socket is reset input. First and last socket (on the line of four sockets) is clock input, when you plug one the other works like a mult of the clock signal. Useful.

The other two remaining sockets (alpha and beta) are the outputs of the processed clock from the alpha part and beta part of the module respectively. If the a+b switch is down the outputs give the same signal.
jnlkrt
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
jnlkrt wrote:
jnlkrt wrote:
can anyone give me a detailed descriptive panel rundown? the knobs are explained well on the website, but the jacks?


anyone? thumbs up


Upper socket is reset input. First and last socket (on the line of four sockets) is clock input, when you plug one the other works like a mult of the clock signal. Useful.

The other two remaining sockets (alpha and beta) are the outputs of the processed clock from the alpha part and beta part of the module respectively. If the a+b switch is down the outputs give the same signal.


thanks! did not know about the mult and was confused why there are so many jacks, considering there is no CV control..
Paranormal Patroler
You're welcome.
plastilina
hello everyone!. wanted to know if I could add stoichea in to my HEK tiptop composed with optomix-Function-WMD Gamma Wave Source...Thanks to everyone for the advice.
plastilina
Up please...
Nuuj
plastilina wrote:
hello everyone!. wanted to know if I could add stoichea in to my HEK tiptop composed with optomix-Function-WMD Gamma Wave Source...Thanks to everyone for the advice.


Not sure what you are asking.

Stoichea needs a clock to do anything.
Function and Gamma Wave source can output a clock, but I'm not sure what you would do with the output of a stoichea in such a setup.
mha
Nuuj wrote:
I'm not sure what you would do with the output of a stoichea in such a setup.


Ping the optomix perhaps?
Auxiliaryoctopus
Beginner question: is there a way to change notes of the oscillators in sync with the rhythms produced by this unit so that that the patterns are melodic as well as rhythmic? Is it possible? What else would I need to do that?
ikkini
Yes, you need a sample & hold or any kind of sequencer.
Auxiliaryoctopus
I'd need one sequencer per oscillator to get different patterns though, right?
alijamieson
Certainly one of my favourite modules.

One of the pots is quite scratchy though, I've tried taking it off to see what's going on but nothing's obvious. Any suggestions? </vague question>
mars
You can take the trigger output of the Stoicheia straight into a CV input, preferably one with an attenuator so that you can adjust the modulated level. No sample & hold needed.
The high trigger will output apprx 5v, which is about the same as the max level of an envelope.

Or you can feed both trigger outputs into a summer or cv mixer and use for more complex modulation of e.g pitch or filter cutoff frequency.

Another fun way to use the Stoicheia is as a complex suboscillator. Feed an audio signal into the clock input - a clean tri or sine for best results - and get various sub squarewaves from the two triggers.
Auxiliaryoctopus
S&H would give me a random tone, but could I control specific tones with a sequencer (Renee, say)? Could I control each of the outputs independently with just one sequencer?

Specifically, what I am looking to do is generate polyrhythmic sequences that utilize specific independent melodic patterns, and I'm just trying to get my mind around what all I will need to make that happen.
albiedamned
alijamieson wrote:
Certainly one of my favourite modules.

One of the pots is quite scratchy though, I've tried taking it off to see what's going on but nothing's obvious. Any suggestions? </vague question>


This makes no sense. Stoicheia generates triggers not audio, so how would you even be able to hear that a pot is scratchy?
albiedamned
Auxiliaryoctopus wrote:
S&H would give me a random tone, but could I control specific tones with a sequencer (Renee, say)? Could I control each of the outputs independently with just one sequencer?

Specifically, what I am looking to do is generate polyrhythmic sequences that utilize specific independent melodic patterns, and I'm just trying to get my mind around what all I will need to make that happen.


I'm not too familiar with Rene, but in general you either need one sequencer per voice or you need a sequencer with multiple clock inputs and multiple corresponding outputs like the Z8000. You could feed each Stoicheia output into one of the clock inputs of the Z8000 (one row, one column, or one of the 16 step patterns), and send the output of that row/column/16-step sequence into your oscillator's V/Oct input. Each trigger from the Stoicheia will advance the sequence to the next step.

Any regular sequencer will do this too, you just need two of them. Send the Stoicheia triggers to the clock input so it advances one step with each trigger.
HeWhoWantsJeans
albiedamned wrote:
alijamieson wrote:
Certainly one of my favourite modules.

One of the pots is quite scratchy though, I've tried taking it off to see what's going on but nothing's obvious. Any suggestions? </vague question>


This makes no sense. Stoicheia generates triggers not audio, so how would you even be able to hear that a pot is scratchy?

Depending on the pot, if the resulting Triggers jumped in value by a noticeable amount, you could determine if a pot would be 'scratchy'.

IE: if the Length pot jumped from a short length to the full before going to the next logical value.
Auxiliaryoctopus
Thank you Albie, that is exactly what I wanted to know.
albiedamned
Auxiliaryoctopus wrote:
Thank you Albie, that is exactly what I wanted to know.


No problem. I forgot to mention that you would also mult the Stoicheia output into your envelope or strike input. Sorry if that seems obvious, but I thought I'd mention it for completeness.

Here's a track I did a couple weeks ago using pretty much exactly this approach. It's with a Pamela's Workout in Euclidean mode, not a Stoicheia, but same concept.

[soundcloud url="https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/171888299" params="auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_use r=true&show_reposts=false&visual=true" width="100%" height="450" iframe="true" /]
mars
HeWhoWantsJeans wrote:
albiedamned wrote:
alijamieson wrote:
Certainly one of my favourite modules.

One of the pots is quite scratchy though </vague question>


This makes no sense.

Depending on the pot, if the resulting Triggers jumped in value by a noticeable amount, you could determine if a pot would be 'scratchy'.


I doubt that would happen. I'd be interested to hear from alijamieson what the problem is.

Perhaps 'scratchy' in the sense that the knob catches on the lock nut underneath? In that case, just use a small screwdriver to undo the set screw in the knob and increase the gap between knob and panel by a fraction.
javierdepascual
Hi guys,

My Stoicheia module is acting weird. All three LED lights turn on and they don't turn off or change whenever I plug in any jack on the inputs. Did anybody else have that problem? I've emailed Martin from Rebel but after I've answered his first question I didn't get any more answers.

Can anybody please help me?
mars
If you have access to a voltmeter, measure the +5v rail on your bus.
I would also suggest you try taking out your Curtis filter.

hth,

Martin, Rebel Technology
javierdepascual
Hi Martin,

I've tried unplugging every module except Stoicheia and the LEDs still light up when I switch it on.

I've also tried other power bus cables but it still doesn't work.

I don't have access to a voltmeter, nor I know what is +5v rail on my bus, but if I plug in another module with the same cable and on the same bus spot it works fine. It seems something's wrong with Stoicheia itself.
mars
Stoicheia is protected against over current and reverse voltage on all rails (fuses and diodes), but not against over voltage on +5v.

The most common cause of damage is that people accidentally plug in some other module the wrong way around, which may not damage the other unit (provided it is suitably protected), but which has the effect of shorting +5v to +12v on the entire bus.

This leads to over voltage, which fries the microcontroller in the Stoicheia. Luckily, in the Stoicheia at least, this is easy to replace.

If you send the module to us we will repair it for you. I will email you the address.
Futuresound
Paranormal Patroler wrote:

Upper socket is reset input. First and last socket (on the line of four sockets) is clock input, when you plug one the other works like a mult of the clock signal. Useful..


Thanks for this. So, if I plug a clock into the first socket, that same clock appears at the fourth socket and I can send it elsewhere?

What happens if I plug a different clock into each socket?
mars
It won't clock the two channels independently.
This might sound like a limitation but in practical use you'll find it's quite convenient.
Plugging in two input clocks will have the same effect as plugging them both into a passive multi then into the Stoicheia.
Futuresound
mars wrote:
It won't clock the two channels independently.
This might sound like a limitation but in practical use you'll find it's quite convenient.
Plugging in two input clocks will have the same effect as plugging them both into a passive multi then into the Stoicheia.


Makes sense. Thanks.
i.murray.fraser
I just ordered a kit from Thonk. Looks like a relatively easy build. Can't wait to make some euclidean rhythms!!
i.murray.fraser
Built this one last night. Everything works. The panel is a bit tight, but my hands still manage fine. Very cool. Great addition to my case.
lilakmonoke
i just built 2 modules in the berlin rebel tech workshop in one weekend. these modules are super easy to build and exceptionally well designed. moreover, if you dont like what they are doing just reprogram them.

euclidian pattern are really low level numeric building blocks for rhythms and if you had about 3 of these modules you could make a track like this in one go. this is all programmed in pure data and everything is driven by euclidian pattern switching of various subdivisions of 17:


[soundcloud url="https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/140635093" params="auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_use r=true&show_reposts=false&visual=true" width="100%" height="450" iframe="true" /]
mars
Video: Algorithmic beat sequencing with Rebel Technology trigger processors.
Includes Stoicheia, Klasmata, Logoi, Phoreo and Chronos.

bassik
Hello all,

I have one of those for quite some time and I have found out that it does not work with my MI modules.
I will be more specific:

1) Stoicheia trig out > Braids Trig in
2) Stoicheia Trig out > Streams Excite in
3) Stoicheia Trig out > Rings Strum in

No sound or signal detected by the MI modules.

DO you have the same experience?
maybe it is just mine.

Thanks.
mars
@bassik what are you using for a clock in? Does it work if you plug the same clock straight into MI? Does it work if you set Stoicheia to alternating mode (toggle switch down)?

The Stoicheia will preserve the pulse width of the incoming clock signal (unless in alternating mode), so if you have a very short PW clock it may be too short to trigger a slow envelope.
Martinorman
I recommend this as a good DIY module. I bought one from Thonk and built it for a friend.
Take care to check the height of the electrolytic caps and the fuses.
1n
Reviving. (And will ask in DIY, too.)

Has anyone reprogrammed this module? Or links to demo's of Stoicheia hacks?

I like tinkering with things and ideas, so looking for inspiration. No actual practical experience of anything like this, which is why I'm looking for some direction - but willing to spend hours finding out, testing and trying.

Edited.
artilect99
Just learned Rebel Tech's modules are open hardware... I'm into DIY but have no experience with compiling firmware and flashing MCU chips. Anyone know what would be entailed in something like that? Just thinking about flashing my own Atmel 168 from the code on github and DIYing the rest.
euromorcego
artilect99 wrote:
Just learned Rebel Tech's modules are open hardware... I'm into DIY but have no experience with compiling firmware and flashing MCU chips. Anyone know what would be entailed in something like that? Just thinking about flashing my own Atmel 168 from the code on github and DIYing the rest.

to get started you could get a preprogrammed chip and focus on the diy: https://www.rebeltech.org/product/programmed-microcontroller/
Best of both worlds ... and you also support the development that way (i assume they earn some money from each sale).
artilect99
Oh, wow, good call. I had been to their site before and never run across that. Thanks, that makes it much easier!
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